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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2009 1:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Fried Chokin
    You can use a cookie cutter MMA strength and conditioning program because, hell, you're already doing that with crossfit. It's just not aimed at MMA.
    I used to be in decent shape. Now I'm fat but still stupidly strong (moving fat).
    Can I get one of these cookie cutter MMA strength and conditioning programs?
    I have a hard time running due to back problems but can run on a treadmill.
  2. theotherserge is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2009 6:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "theotherscrapper" ? Now I understand...
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  3. somersetkravmag is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 4:41am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    CrossFit

    I read this with some interest as both a personal trainer and CrossFit Trainer. I wanted to add my own perspective as a trainer on the effects of CrossFit but I would add that we adapt the crossfit programme to suit our location. As such we dont offer the full C/F programme for practical reasons.

    I would have reservations , as I believe most C/F trainers would, putting a new untested trainee into OLY lifts on a typical crossfit session. It shouldnt - does not work like that. Workouts are scaled for the individual. We substitute heavy lifts with lighter kettlebell exercises. Other C/F affiliates use lighter weights etc.

    I notice that the flaws identified by Pollequin were actually the features of the programme - namely it does not specialise in one aspect of training. Crossfit should be a broad- functional programme addressing 10 athletic skills. . So if you were to compare only one narrow aspect of training - e.g strength as measured Oly lifting in this case. No CrossFit would not perform as well in that area.

    But I would also suggest that the Oly lifting individual would be stronger in that task but the well trained Crossfitter would be fitter, faster and more able over a wide range of tasks and still able to perform well in Oly lifting. In short the crossfitter will be more adaptable. If you think of a functional activity, The CrossFitter is more likley to succeed in a greater variety of tasks.

    To quote Steve ilg - 'Specialisation is for insects'. Meaning that specialising is a risky strategy in most environments for most species. Generally nature rewards the adaptable mammal. By this I mean that what makes a successfull athlete, human being, in fact almost any mammal is the ability to function well over a range in tasks. As a fighter/martial artist I would reccomend Crossfit. Why - it covers all bases.

    A question you need to ask is does Crossfit work as a training protocol.
    I say a resounding YES! As a trainer CrossFit provides the best training programme I have seen.

    There may be better but I have yet to experience them - and if I do I will teach whatever works best.

    In my experience physical training like a fighting skill is more often defined by its flaws than its strengths. A fighter typically loses on his weakest area - inspite of having a dominant skill elsewhere. The exception here tends to be where one fighters dominant area so exceeds his opponents the fight is over quickly. CrossFit seeks to address this physical imbalance.

    As a trainer I have been running a range of combative/fitness programmes over the last few years. Previously we have run a range of circuit training and combat fitness programmes but when I changed to CrossFit I noticed a marked improvement in relative strength, speed and recovery of my trainees.

    Interestingly I noticed they also appeared better co -ordinted at other unrelated tasks.

    In summary, I would strongly recommed CrossFit. Its one of the few organisation that provides great quality, a good research base and all the work outs and instructionals can be viewed free on the net.

    I have linked to our site in case anyone is interested and yes its a bit out of date:biggrin: but if I spend all day on the site I cant train people www.crossfit-bristol.co.uk

    Cheers Guys
    Last edited by somersetkravmag; 1/07/2009 4:51am at .
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 9:49am

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *blows a gasket over the word functional*
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 11:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by somersetkravmag
    I read this with some interest as both a personal trainer and CrossFit Trainer.
    And a Krav Maga practitioner to boot. Raz is a prophet.

    Anyways, I don't really feel like replying to your post at length, but here are a few things...

    1) The "flaws = features" argument only applies to Poliquin's second objection.
    2) I don't know who Steve Ilg is, but that's a Heinlein quote, and I don't like your summary of it.

    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    3) If you're going to say something prefaced with "In my opinion", you're probably better off not saying it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  6. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 11:06am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Russ, I need to throw more rep around so that I can plus rep every single thing you ever post.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  7. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 1:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by H TO THE IZZO
    #1 is valid, although it's not really an indictment of Crossfit in particular - I don't think I've ever done a program that does include testing for structural-balance issues.

    #2 simply does not apply to training for mixed martial arts. There are too many attributes involved. (I'm also curious as to what Poliquin thinks of world-class decatheletes and freaks of nature like Dwight Freeney)

    #3 is correct, and probably the most important criticism. See this post for my stolen philosophy on the Olympic lifts.

    #4 and #5 are where the real debate lies, because they're questions of philosophy rather than of resources. A lot of what I've seen of the CrossFit philosophy seems to fall into the Gym Jones mold - developing mental attributes ("toughness", focus, etc.) rather than physical ones. Which is great and all, so long as you don't stagnate or get hurt doing it.

    #6 is overreaching - difficult exercises may not be appropriate for everyone, but I personally know several athletes who have successfully included standing on Swiss balls (and beyond) in their training.
    -I think this about sums it up imo.
  8. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 1:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great time for me to notice I spelled decathlete wrong. Damn it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  9. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2009 4:09pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by somersetkravmag
    To quote Steve ilg - 'Specialisation is for insects'. Meaning that specialising is a risky strategy in most environments for most species. Generally nature rewards the adaptable mammal. By this I mean that what makes a successfull athlete, human being, in fact almost any mammal is the ability to function well over a range in tasks. As a fighter/martial artist I would reccomend Crossfit. Why - it covers all bases.
    That is exactly why I would not recommend it as a fighter/martial artist. Crossfit tries to cover all aspects of fitness relatively equally. If you are not involved in a specific sport and simply trying to be physically fit, this is great - you're not neglecting any aspect of your physical training. If you are involved in a specific sport, however, such as MMA or grappling, certain physical aspects need to be prioritised above others - specifically the ones necessary to your sport in which you are weak.

    If you are a lightweight with excellent wind and rarely gas out in rolling, but are often overpowered by stronger opponents with good technique - it is sub-optimal to spend the same amount of time on anaerobic/aerobic conditioning as you do on maximal/explosive strength development.

    If you are a heavyweight with a high degree of maximal strength but are slow and not explosive - it is sub-optimal to spend the same amount of time on maximal strength and explosive strength.

    If you can roll at a medium pace for hours but are often outhustled by more explosive grapplers, it it sub-optimal to spend the same amount of time on aerobic output and anaerobic capacity.

    If you are a fighter/martial artist, like any other sport, you should be using your randori/sparring/scrimmage live sessions to determine what your physical weaknesses are, and then using your strength and conditioning program to target those weaknesses - Crossfit does the exact opposite of this. By attempting to improve all aspects of fitness at once, it gives the same priority to your strengths as your weaknesses, which results in very slow improvement.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
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