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  1. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:21am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by footfistway
    I started Tai chi in about 1990 after 10 years so of Shotokan, my teacher was not a very advanced, he taught me Cheng Man Ching's form. In 96 I moved back to Maine and Trained with my original Karate teacher Alan Gardner who in addition to Shotokan was a CMA teacher and a direct student of Cheng. I also dabbled in the Chen style and now (as my teacher passed away in "06" I am learning the Wu form from a friend who is a student of Tony Ho.

    Need more details?
    Actually he probably does. There are some people on this site who do hard core push hands. To a wrestler/bjj player (me) it looks a lot like Greco Roman Wrestling or Judo.

    So yeah, the next question is what is your push hands experience like?

    Also, from me, what sort of grappling are you looking for? There are styles with awesome stand up and throws, some that are more shoot for the takedown and lots of ground grappling styles.

    And no, I was not offended by your dance comments so no worries mate. :icon_cool

    Just keep in mind when you come to a site that has a lot of wrestlers, Judoka and BJJ players the answer you are going to get for leaning how to grapple is 'Join a grappling school'.
  2. Student is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:26am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by footfistway

    I am looking for a set of grappling drills that can be practiced like Tai Chi Push hands. I have seen some "flow drills" that look kind of like what I am looking for, but not quite.

    What I really need is ten or so grappling techniques and their corresponding escapes that can be taught as a continuously moving set for the purpose of building the same kind of following, relaxation and sensitivity skills that are learned from push hands.

    Is your goal to develop real grappling skills that will work against another trained grappler, or to just do some movements from grappling as more of a relaxation exercise?
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:30am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See, hence my question.

    Student sees where I am going.

    Basically, you are a beginner as you admit. There is nothing relaxing about advanced push hands. If you feel it is a way to relax, you have been stuck at the beginning stage of tai chi or have incomplete training.
  4. footfistway is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:30am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan, Tai Chi Chuan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HoHo - Ho
    The question is why do you want these drills and why wouldn't you join a grappling club?

    Seminars and the occasion cross training probably equals 1 week of class.
    Because I work a full time job, I have 30 or so kids I teach Shotokan to, a handful of folks that do Tai Chi and a family. I don't intend to compete but I want to include some basic grappling into my classes because I understand its value to a well-rounded martial artist. I really don't have the time to study grappling full time any more than I have time to study WC full time. This doesnít stop me from including WC in my classes...
    I don't think that Seminars are a substitute for training in a given art, but that doesnít mean that I canít learn something useful from them. After all, I am talking about basics here.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:40am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by footfistway
    Because I work a full time job, I have 30 or so kids I teach Shotokan to, a handful of folks that do Tai Chi and a family. I don't intend to compete but I want to include some basic grappling into my classes because I understand its value to a well-rounded martial artist.
    This is why this website exists. You know that right?
  6. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:47am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by footfistway
    Because I work a full time job, I have 30 or so kids I teach Shotokan to, a handful of folks that do Tai Chi and a family. I don't intend to compete but I want to include some basic grappling into my classes because I understand its value to a well-rounded martial artist. I really don't have the time to study grappling full time any more than I have time to study WC full time. This doesnít stop me from including WC in my classes...
    I don't think that Seminars are a substitute for training in a given art, but that doesnít mean that I canít learn something useful from them. After all, I am talking about basics here.
    Could you show me some Shotokan drills on the web. I don't have time to train at a school because I teach grappling but I know striking is important to being a well rounded martial artist and I want to teach it in my class?

    Of course you would be offended if I sent this request to you that I could watch a few videos and feel that would make me qualified to teach Shotokan.

    If you want grappling taught in your class then either learn to grapple at a school or hire a grappling instructor! Otherwise you are cheating your students. They will not be well rounded, they will not have any grappling skills and they will get owned if they roll with even an experienced white belt.
  7. footfistway is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:54am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan, Tai Chi Chuan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [
    quote=It is Fake]See, hence my question.
    Student sees where I am going.
    Basically, you are a beginner as you admit. There is nothing relaxing about advanced push hands. If you feel it is a way to relax, you have been stuck at the beginning stage of tai chi or have incomplete training.[/quote]

    I donít think that it is fair to say that there is "Nothing" relaxed about advanced push hands. Staying as relaxed as possible in the face of aggression is one of the principals of training that I see as key to the advanced practice of any martial art, grappling included. That being said, yes, the level of tension goes up when you are doing push hands where you can end up across the room or on the floor looking up. This is where I am going with this. When push hands goes outside the comfort level for people (such as being thrown or locked up) they get tight. Just like (I assume) I feel when I am grappling with a person who is much better than me. Good grapplers "feel" like good Tai Chi players to me.
    Hence I am looking for a way of practicing a small range of grappling techniques in a way that makes me able to relax more . I am not looking for an endless practice of rolling around with a compliant partnerÖ..I am looking for a specific tool that I want to experiment with. Is this making sense?
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 11:59am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    See, hence my question.
    Student sees where I am going.
    Basically, you are a beginner as you admit. There is nothing relaxing about advanced push hands. If you feel it is a way to relax, you have been stuck at the beginning stage of tai chi or have incomplete training.
    I donít think that it is fair to say that there is "Nothing" relaxed about advanced push hands.
    Please read what I wrote.

    Staying as relaxed as possible in the face of aggression is one of the principals of training that I see as key to the advanced practice of any martial art, grappling included.
    You are mixing a principle with an action. Please, make sure you understand the difference. If not, do you need me to explain?

    That being said, yes, the level of tension goes up when you are doing push hands where you can end up across the room or on the floor looking up. This is where I am going with this. When push hands goes outside the comfort level for people (such as being thrown or locked up) they get tight. Just like (I assume) I feel when I am grappling with a person who is much better than me. Good grapplers "feel" like good Tai Chi players to me.
    Go to youtube and post a link to the push hands you do or have experienced.


    Hence I am looking for a way of practicing a small range of grappling techniques in a way that makes me able to relax more . I am not looking for an endless practice of rolling around with a compliant partnerÖ..I am looking for a specific tool that I want to experiment with. Is this making sense?
    Exactly. Yet, you kind of changed your tune.

    IMO you want to crapple. People here aren't going to help you do that here.

    If you want grappling taught in your class then either learn to grapple at a school or hire a grappling instructor! Otherwise you are cheating your students. They will not be well rounded, they will not have any grappling skills and they will get owned if they roll with even an experienced white belt.
    This is what I would've eventually go to if, Mike hadn't of opened his big mouth.
  9. footfistway is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 12:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan, Tai Chi Chuan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Please read what I wrote.



    You are mixing a principle with an action. Please, make sure you understand the difference. If not, do you need me to explain?



    Go to youtube and post a link to the push hands you do or have experienced.


    Exactly. Yet, you kind of changed your tune.

    IMO you want to crapple. People here aren't going to help you do that here.

    This is what I would've eventually go to if, Mike hadn't of opened his big mouth.
    Oh for the love of God.....Yeah, you guys know all, nobody else could possibly have a clue. I should ask questions of other. Thank you for you time.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2008 12:24pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by footfistway
    Oh for the love of God.....Yeah, you guys know all, nobody else could possibly have a clue. I should ask questions of other. Thank you for you time.
    Interesting you say this:

    .I am looking for a specific tool that I want to experiment with. Is this making sense?
    my teacher was not a very advanced, he taught me Cheng Man Ching's form
    I have trained with some grapplers over the years and have done lots and lots of seminars but I certainly don't call myself a grappler.
    I don't think that Seminars are a substitute for training in a given art, but that doesnít mean that I canít learn something useful from them. After all, I am talking about basics here.
    I don't intend to compete but I want to include some basic grappling into my classes because I understand its value to a well-rounded martial artist.

    It has nothing to do with US knowing all. It has to do with your arrogance and being an admitted beginner in what you are asking about. You are also willing to teach "principles" and "techniques" (notice the correct spelling?) to other beginners when, you would be a few steps ahead of said beginners.

    Do you not understand the problem?
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