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  1. #11
    Sri Hanuman's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep, it seems Pai Lum was created some time around the late 40s.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pai_lum


    As for the White Dragon Martial Arts Society...
    Quote Originally Posted by WikiPedia
    The U.S. White Dragon Martial Arts Society was formed and produced a team that on July 4, 1976 was awarded a Certificate of Merit for superb achievement during the Kuoshu demonstrations held in Taipei, the Republic of China, by Tsai Hung-Wen, President of the Kuoshu Federation. His team participation in the 2nd World Chinese Kuoshu Tournament in 1978 at Taipei led to Grandmaster Pai being appointed "Delegate at Large" for the Chinese Kuoshu Worldwide Promotion Association. The 3rd World Chinese Kuoshu Tournament was organized by Daniel K. Pai and was held in Hawaii in 1980.

    And now for the interesting part.
    Quote Originally Posted by WikiPedia
    The historical legend as told above has never been substantiated and is even considered dubious by many within Pai Lum. Issues arise when one finds that there has never been a "White Lotus Temple" in Okinawa and that the Okamura mentioned within the legend's text is more likely to have been the founder of the "Okinawa Kenpo Karate" system, namely Shigeru Nakamura. It also raises the question as to why a master of a Chinese martial art would send his grandson half a world away to study an Okinawan martial art system when he could have taught him.

    Moreover, the date of Pai's alleged travel to Okinawa seems highly improbable, since according to the legend he would have travelled there in 1942, after the Second World War in the Pacific began, which is clearly very improbable, given that Okinawa was one of the Japanese home islands. Another controversy is that Daniel Pai was often called "Dr. Pai" by his students but to date, there is no record of Daniel Pai going to medical school or achieving a doctorate from any academic institution.
    That is not to say the system is crap, it's a question of questionable lineage.
    Case in point:
    Quote Originally Posted by WikiPedia
    Master Thomas St. Charles (Pai Shinzan) was not "exiled for killing a defenseless man with his skills." Master St. Charles killed a man in self defense which was ruled "justifiable homicide" by the court.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun addict
    how come alot of Chinese Kung Fu school always use "dragon" shitload of time? White dragon society, dragon palm, learn the way of the dragon, what the ****?
    The Dragon is held in high regards in the Chines Culture.

  3. #13

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    yes i know, i'm Chinese, but it just seems to me that now it's a marketing ploy. People would put "dragon" on anything to make it authentically chineses.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    It would not be uncommon for Fukien to contain a Taiji shcool, not neceserily associated with Shaolin.

    However, Fukien DID have many Shaolin experts. They are the same ones that migrated to Okinawa, and are most likely the 13 Chinese families mentioned in the Bubishi as having taught the Okinawan locals their martial arts. Not sure if they had an actual temple, and don't want to pull this one off the top of my head. Will have to do a bit of digging in my library.
    The "Fukien Tai Chi" is probably the stuff allegedly made up by Daniel Pai towards the end of his career. You can see him doing it on Youtube--and be unimpressed. On the other hand, my view is that Pai's dragon forms are genuine Fukien shaolin, notably the ones with a Hokkien dialect name to them: Pai Lum, Pai Lim, Pai Kow.

  5. #15
    Sri Hanuman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shen Dian
    The "Fukien Tai Chi" is probably the stuff allegedly made up by Daniel Pai towards the end of his career. You can see him doing it on Youtube--and be unimpressed. On the other hand, my view is that Pai's dragon forms are genuine Fukien shaolin, notably the ones with a Hokkien dialect name to them: Pai Lum, Pai Lim, Pai Kow.
    So again, it comes down to a questionable lineage on the part of Daniel Pai.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun addict
    yes i know, i'm Chinese, but it just seems to me that now it's a marketing ploy. People would put "dragon" on anything to make it authentically chineses.
    Does the word "duh?" mean anything to you?

  7. #17
    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT supporting member
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    People would put "dragon" on anything to make it authentically chineses.
    The hell you say.

    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    So again, it comes down to a questionable lineage on the part of Daniel Pai.
    Yeah. Basically the only source for anything Pai ever said was Pai himself.

    On the "Dr. Pai" thing, back in the early '70's the word was that was a Ph. D. in philosophy from the U. of Hawaii. That was disproved, so it changed to U. of Connecticut or some such thing. Nowadays his followers claim it is in homeopathic medicine from some school in India--and who's gonna fly over just to disproved that! :rolleyes:

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleSoft
    The hell you say.

    Yeah, baby. Now there's a blast from the past!

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