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  1. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 6:21pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by H TO THE IZZO
    Goal #1: Ignore previous shitty post.
    Goal #2: Be contrary.



    I'm going to go with IGF-1 for strength and size.

    Goals: accomplished!
    I've been gone for awhile, so I have no idea who you are.

    Giving an ADMIN a neg varrot asking for citations isn't really a good idea.

    Be prepared to be fucked with the rest of your life here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  2. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 6:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're going to **** with him for the rest of his life over rep?

    Wouldn't that be rep bitching?


    Russ is a good guy.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
    Kentucky Fried Chokin's Avatar

    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 6:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I too enjoy ThaRuss
  4. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 7:19pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    You're going to **** with him for the rest of his life over rep?

    Wouldn't that be rep bitching?


    Russ is a good guy.
    A good guy would have posted his question. He got me in a bad mood, too bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  5. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 7:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man...rep.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. BudoMonkey is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 8:09pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandinha
    He got me in a bad mood, too bad.
    Pssshtt...a little roid rage?

    I kid, I kid...




    (Seriously dude, I'm just playin. Please don't eat me.)
    Last edited by BudoMonkey; 12/10/2008 8:12pm at .
    "This is why we are here. Because the Martial Arts for too long have been cloaked in an unnecessary level of secrecy bordering on mysticism, and its in these shadows that the cockroaches love to hide. -Phrost"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squerlli
    And of course, our resident hard man, underground fighter, kitten rescuer, loving father (I'm serious), and over all very sexy furry ************... Budo monkeh.
  7. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 8:12pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BudoMonkey
    Pssshtt...a little roid rage?

    I kid, I kid...




    (Seriously dude, don't eat me.)
    Funny enough, I just went back on cycle this morning. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  8. TheRuss is offline
    TheRuss's Avatar

    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 12:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Uh, okay, to spell it out...

    "Goal #1: Ignore previous shitty post." referred to this one (the post directly before mine). I bear a grudge against people who try to conflate sporting ethics with biochemistry, and my remark about IGF-1 was more than just being contrary for the sake of being contrary (or as you put it, being a dick) - it was an attempt to keep things from going down that road. (Which succeeded, although not in the manner I'd expected.)

    I also think it's a fair comment in its own right. I was thinking of the following when I made it:

    Testosterone does not have as potent an effect on muscle as IGF-1, and mostly behaves in a stimulatory manner for other more potent anabolic hormones. Increasing in response to bouts of exercise testosterone further stimulates the pituitary gland to produce more GH. It also stimulates the hepatic and extra-hepatic production of IGF.
    -Sevilla, "Hypertrophy and Hyperplasia: Adaptations of Muscular Tissue to Various Resistance Training Protocols" (PDF)

    Now, that's from a five-year-old literature review, so it's not beyond dispute. And that leads into another issue...

    You know, your advice that I not be a dick is solid. And your suggestion that I research PCT and bloodwork for myself is fine too. As a matter of fact, I did - before receiving said suggestion.

    This post (briefly) lays out my hypothesis for mid-cycle (that is, before PCT) gynecomastia.
    After making that post, I decided to look into things further. I hit up Wikipedia, which led me to this article - which may or may not be credible, but it's got a decent reference list for further reading.

    What I found interesting about the latter is the broadening from what I'd typically think of as PCT (kick-starting endogenous testosterone production) to things like using aromatase inhibitors and chemicals that bind to estrogen receptors.

    Now, perhaps this is naive of me, but I'd be inclined to think that if you want to slow down the testosterone-estrogen shunt, the most opportune time to do so would be while testosterone levels are elevated - during the cycle, not after it, when said shunt should be effectively inactive. And at this point, "post-cycle therapy" becomes a misnomer.

    It has also been documented that various physiological factors affect said shunt - one example would be obesity. This is enough to persuade me that BudoMonkey's statement that you took exception to, in the context of his follow-up:

    Quote Originally Posted by BudoMonkey
    I have also talked to a bunch of guys (probably 10-15%) who swear by the fact that they used a PCT properly, either novaldex or some over the counter stuff, and because of the way their bodies processed it or whatever it just didn't have any effect.
    ... may have some merit. And this is why I asked for evidence to support your counterclaim:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandinha
    Proper PCT's and watching estrogen levels will negate any type of gyno.
    Post-cycle therapy - unless, as previously noted, it's a misnomer - won't take effect until... post-cycle.
    Watching estrogen levels during a cycle will not have any effect without acting on what you see.
    And remember that different people respond differently to chemical interventions. So what if, for a variety of feasible reasons, the estrogen levels imply that the appropriate action to avoid gyno is to end the cycle early? You could argue that that would technically "negate" gyno, but it would also "negate" the anabolism that is the point of taking steroids.

    Maybe you've taken all of this into account when you made your claim. If you have, it'd be mutually beneficial for you to document your research on the subject - your diligence is highlighted, and everyone else has the opportunity to benefit from your efforts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  9. SifuAbel is offline
    SifuAbel's Avatar

    Rock ape baby pic

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2008 7:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandinha
    Funny enough, I just went back on cycle this morning. :)
    And just how long have you been juicing? :cwm10:
  10. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2008 11:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good thing people on the street don't use drugs.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
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