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  1. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 6:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See, that's what I don't get. Everyone says that steroids cause gyno, but you look at the Olympia, where guys are juiced out of their fucking gills, and you rarely see a case of gyno on stage. You could argue that these guys are constantly getting surgery to remove the tissue, but you'd think that would be detrimental to their ability to perform, because recovery from surgery is time they can't spend training towards the Olympia.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  2. BudoMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 6:17pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are juicing you can't get gyno because of the extremely high levels of testosterone in your body. It is when they stop juicing that their bodies begin to overcompensate with dramatically increased levels of estrogen.

    Or, can rather. I know at least two guys who have had hard masses form in their breasts.

    Two that admit it, anyhow.
    "This is why we are here. Because the Martial Arts for too long have been cloaked in an unnecessary level of secrecy bordering on mysticism, and its in these shadows that the cockroaches love to hide. -Phrost"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squerlli
    And of course, our resident hard man, underground fighter, kitten rescuer, loving father (I'm serious), and over all very sexy furry ************... Budo monkeh.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 6:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I never get the same gyno-to-roid link either.

    gyno could be caused by seriously missing (or fucking up) the PT over and over. But that'd be the fault of the user, not of steroids per say. The likes of Jay Cutler and Ron Coleman surely are as diligent in not fucking up as they are in pumping iron as they get ready for their comps.

    It's like everything. I could take pepto bismol for stomach age, but overdo it and have my ass on needles with a major case of diarrhea. But that'd be me being a retard and not on the pepto :tard:

    If it ain't cuz of the wifey who wants none of it, I would have tried it already. HT is the next choice if I get a doc willing to write me a prescription.

    To the OP, a couple of members on this board have use steroids for a variety of reasons, some sport-oriented, others as HRT. A few caveats aside, their reviews have been positive.

    I completely dislike your thread because it makes the assumption that a negative side effect is solely the domain of steroids and that other forms of *natural* supplements are inherently safer or without side effects.

    For Christ's sake, I can find side effects to aspirin, ibuprofen, alka seltzer, even beans, coffee or chamomile tea. Everything has the potential of having a side effect when used incorrectly or for the wrong reasons.

    Furthermore, and the reason I dislike this thread the most, is that

    1. You ask open ended questions (google what an open-ended question is if you don't know.)
    2. You don't explain the purpose of your query.
    3. The topic of steroids has been discussed a kazillion times here. Use the goddamn search function. This is not the first time I've told you about it.

    I'm going to start moving **** out for the next non-n00b poster who failz @ teh search func.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 6:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BudoMonkey
    If you are juicing you can't get gyno because of the extremely high levels of testosterone in your body. It is when they stop juicing that their bodies begin to overcompensate with dramatically increased levels of estrogen.

    Or, can rather. I know at least two guys who have had hard masses form in their breasts.

    Two that admit it, anyhow.
    Yeah, I knew a dude at a GoldsGym that had an obvious and bad case of gyno as well. When I first saw him, he was a wall of muscle, but a few months later, the guy just withered, everything withered but the boobs. PCT gone wrong, badly wrong. Bad ****.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 6:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BudoMonkey
    If you are juicing you can't get gyno because of the extremely high levels of testosterone in your body. It is when they stop juicing that their bodies begin to overcompensate with dramatically increased levels of estrogen.

    Or, can rather. I know at least two guys who have had hard masses form in their breasts.

    Two that admit it, anyhow.

    Wouldn't this be a factor of proper PCT?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 7:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    I completely dislike your thread because it makes the assumption that a negative side effect is solely the domain of steroids and that other forms of *natural* supplements are inherently safer or without side effects.

    Tobacco and arsenic are "all natural". Perhaps the OP should try them.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  7. codo3500 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 8:27pm


     Style: BJJ/Muay Thai (MMA)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally I don't see a problem with steroids if done correctly. The problem is, most people either don't know how to research effectively, or simply can't be bothered, and that's where they **** it up.

    The fact is, it depends on your goals, if you want to put on 20 pounds of rock hard muscle, you don't need steroids, it can be done without (it would just take 5x as long). If you however want to put on 50 pounds of muscle and be completely ripped the whole time while doing it, you have to be realistic, it wont happen without a little help of vitamin-T.
  8. BudoMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 9:46pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Wouldn't this be a factor of proper PCT?
    To you and Macho both-

    At the supplement shop I talk to ALOT of guys with experience using steroids and prohormones, in some cases for years and years. In many instances that I've heard about, yes- these guys mess up the timing using their PCT. However, I have also talked to a bunch of guys (probably 10-15%) who swear by the fact that they used a PCT properly, either novaldex or some over the counter stuff, and because of the way their bodies processed it or whatever it just didn't have any effect.

    I know personally, I used the old-school androstene for about 6 months when I was 13 while I was boxing, did absolutely no PCT at all and had no side effects. It's like many hormone related drugs, I suppose, and it depends entirely on the user. I'd be interested in seeing an actual study about the plausibility and causation of gyno, and if I find a good one I'll send it to you guys in a PM or something, instead of this garbage thread.
    "This is why we are here. Because the Martial Arts for too long have been cloaked in an unnecessary level of secrecy bordering on mysticism, and its in these shadows that the cockroaches love to hide. -Phrost"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squerlli
    And of course, our resident hard man, underground fighter, kitten rescuer, loving father (I'm serious), and over all very sexy furry ************... Budo monkeh.
  9. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2008 11:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Yeah, I never get the same gyno-to-roid link either.
    Quoting from Longcope et al., "Conversion of blood androgens to estrogens in normal adult men and women"

    Continuous infusions of [androstenedione] and [testosterone] have been used to demonstrate that these androgens are converted to estrone and 17p-estradiol, and contribute to the circulating blood levels of these estrogens in normal males and females.
    So that's one possible route that isn't dependent on screwing up the PCT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Everyone says that steroids cause gyno, but you look at the Olympia, where guys are juiced out of their fucking gills, and you rarely see a case of gyno on stage.
    Important corollary:

    Whether measured as conversion ratio or transfer constant, the peripheral aromatization of androstenedione takes place to a greater degree than that of testosterone
    In other words, much like different anabolic steroid hormones have varying androgen-receptor affinity, they're also converted to estrogen at different rates. I think that any single side effect (that isn't a consequence of anabolism itself) can be worked around by judicious selection of chemical, but... right now, it looks like you're still stuck picking your poison.
    Last edited by TheRuss; 12/08/2008 11:42pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  10. Portillo is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/09/2008 4:59am


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Better for what?
    Pretty much what [FONT=impact]Pandinha[/FON"]No BS Martial Arts - View Profile: Pandinha@@AMEPARAM@@View Profile: Pandinha</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Pandinha wrote

    IMHO, there is nothing better for gaining strength, size, and recovery than steroids.
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