New experimental rules for Pugilism

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 3:07pm

Proposed revised rules of the Reformed Pugilistic Benevolent Society, 2008

General introduction and notes:

The RPBS (a bunch of guys in this thread: How to save boxing? - No BS Martial Arts ) hereby offer this experimental ruleset to the general Bullshido community for feedback. Take them, try them out for fun at your next throwdown and report back, preferably with video. We're hoping this will generate enough buzz that we can take the idea to the next level, whatever that turns out to be.

These rules are based on those of the London Prize Ring circa 1841, updated for modern recreational contests in the Manly Art of Pugilism, which is essentially boxing with the addition of upper-body throws + trips and sweeps.. Thus, rather than breaking from the clinch, pugilists can hold and hit, throw, attempt a standing submission hold, etc.

The rules do not provide for winners and losers by points, KO, TKO etc.; the assumption is that gentlemen will fight for the love of the sport.

Equipment:

Mouthguard
Cup
12 oz boxing or MMA gloves
Headgear (optional)

1) The arena shall be approximately twenty-four feet square, contest to be held either in a boxing ring, MMA cage, or on mats should a ring not be available. A line ("the scratch") shall be marked or taped in the center of the arena.

2) Both pugilists being ready, each shall proceed to that side of the scratch closest to his corner.

3) A round shall continue until one man is down, either as a result of having been thrown or knocked down or until one man surrenders by tap-out or by calling "hold!"

4) After each round there shall be a rest period of thirty seconds (unless otherwise agreed upon). The umpire appointed shall then call "time;" either pugilist failing to be at the scratch within eight seconds, shall be deemed to have surrendered the battle.

5) It shall be "a fair stand-up fight," and no pugilist shall deliberately fall down without receiving a blow; but this rule shall not apply to a pugilist who slips down from the opponent's grasp to avoid punishment during a clinch.

6) Headbutting shall be deemed foul, and the party resorting to this practice shall be deemed to have lost the battle.

7) A pugilist with one knee and one hand on the ground, or with both knees on the ground, shall be deemed down; and a blow given in either of those positions shall be considered foul, providing always, that when in such position, the pugilist so down shall not himself strike or attempt to strike.

8) Any blow struck below the waistband shall be deemed foul, and seizing an antagonist below the waist, by the thigh or otherwise, shall be deemed foul.

9) All attempts to inflict injury by gouging and biting shall be deemed foul.

10) That kicking, or deliberately falling on an antagonist with the knees or otherwise when down, shall be deemed foul.

11) That striking with the elbows or forearms, or using the knees to strike the antagonist while both pugilists are standing, shall be deemed legal only by agreement between all parties prior to the match (a.k.a. "Oriental Rules")

12) That unsportsmanlike behavior including swearing shall be deemed foul.

13) That all stage fights be as nearly as possible in conformity with the foregoing rules.

**1point2** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 3:23pm

On the basis of absolutely nothing, I propose that headbutting be put under the same category as elbows and knees. I would only do it with headgear, but it might be fun.

...or is it the deadly?

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 3:24pm

I don't understand you !!!

Sometimes I want to slap you via e-mail and other times I am astounded by your ability to have a good time . This is one of those latter cases .

One question jumps out to me tho .. Am I reading that every time one is knocked down or thrown both get a 30 second break ?

... but I can not and will not spar for "fun" without leg kicks ... I think leg kicks are the gentlemanly way to either : ask to receive a right cross from your friend or crimp your friends mobility .

:eusa_naug

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 3:31pm

Originally Posted by 1point2

On the basis of absolutely nothing, I propose that headbutting be put under the same category as elbows and knees. I would only do it with headgear, but it might be fun.

...or is it the deadly?

The rules are evolving as we speak, but basically we have two rulesets so far; "Occidental" which is a slightly modified version of 1800s boxing rules and "Oriental" (tongue firmly in cheek) which also allows for elbows and knees. With the right equipment you can headbutt reasonably safely but beware of neck injuries (whiplash).

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 3:35pm

Originally Posted by Charles Krauthammer

I don't understand you !!!

Sometimes I want to slap you via e-mail and other times I am astounded by your ability to have a good time . This is one of those latter cases .

Learn to live with confusion.

One question jumps out to me tho .. Am I reading that every time one is knocked down or thrown both get a 30 second break ?

Note:

After each round there shall be a rest period of thirty seconds (unless otherwise agreed upon).

Note also that old school pugilism (prize fighting) was basically an endurance contest with no limits to the number of rounds that could be fought. In practical terms re. recreational/experimental matches at throwdowns, we anticipate that fights will last until someone gets tired.

**G-Off** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 4:59pm

I am a fan of this idea. Any idea when they'll be tried out?

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 5:14pm

Originally Posted by G-Off

I am a fan of this idea. Any idea when they'll be tried out?

That's part of the point of this thread. Whoever wants to try them out is welcome.

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 7:36pm

I just sent a message to my primary sparring partner to see if he wants to give it a shot. I'll be sure to get video if we do.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 7:50pm

Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw

I just sent a message to my primary sparring partner to see if he wants to give it a shot. I'll be sure to get video if we do.

Please do post any video of sparring or contests under these rules. Early video is the best way to get others interested.

Also, regarding the headbutt: Its technically illegal under both rule sets. The expanded (Oriental) rule set is for anything within the letter of the rules, while the Occidental rules are for techniques within the spirit of the rules. Case in point: the are no rules specifically banning standing submissions (like the standing guillotine ala Smith/Rhodes) so one could experiment with this in the expanded rules (by agreement).

Thanks to DdlR for taking the time to write up the rules draft. This summarizes 32 pages of posting on the original thread.

One point of revision: unless someone can find a prohibition against standing submissions in the posted rules, there has to be a submission by tapout provision (for obvious safety reasons)

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/01/2008 10:52pm

This is where the understanding of what was meant by a "fair stand-up fight" differs between London in the mid-1800s as compared to the modern international perspective. It's likely that the LPR rules didn't ban standing submissions because it was simply understood that such techniques were not part of boxing.

Personally I'm a bit cautious about "adding" new categories of techniques on this default basis, simply because we might end up over-complicating the rules or making them redundantly close to extant rule-sets. That said, I'm all for experimentation and innovation, so if people want to come up with their own variations using this as a basic model, all power to them.