224961 Bullies, 3493 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 41
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Rambamatic is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    48

    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 4:35pm


     Style: Kenpo & Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula
    Wrong.



    And this is a great tragedy in the martial arts. If you don't want to be a fighter, what the hell are you doing taking a martial art?



    Iaido is nonsense.

    Someone should really have martial arts nerds like you only be in charge of all the martial arts nerd school review sections and someone who actually knows what they're talking about in charge of the combat school section.
    Sorry, but this is silly. I've been involved in the MA for over 15 years in two different styles of Kenpo Karate (10+ yrs), Kickboxing, Aikido (1 yr), Wrestling (4 years in HS), and now I focus on RBMA through combat JuJitsu and BJJ.

    Although I have competed in BJJ competition and inter-dojo kickboxing matches, I no longer do so. Even when I was occasionally competing, I never had the desire to "be a fighter" and I did not cater my training regime specifically to fight.

    Although I train with guys who fight, I do not fight myself. My interest in the MA is mostly about Reality Based Self Defense now....and there is a tremendous amount of practical knowledge and applciaton involved in the study and training of practical self defense.

    For you to say that someone like me, who has no interest in fighting, but who'se expereince is long and broad, has no business in the MA is just ignorant and insulting as well as plain wrong.

    Do you even understand the difference between "fighting" and "self-defense"??? It's a huge difference.
  2. 1point2 is online now
    1point2's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,118

    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 4:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rambamatic is wrong again.
  3. Rambamatic is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    48

    Posted On:
    11/21/2008 10:18am


     Style: Kenpo & Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    Rambamatic is wrong again.
    Wrong how? If you disagree, fine. However, please explain how you disagree.

    I find it very hard to believe that anyoone would think training in the MA for purely self defense related reasons and not to compete as an amateur or pro fighter is illegitimate....that type of mindset is not only foolish, but just wrong, as MOST of the people in the world who train in the MA ARE NOT FIGHTERS.
  4. Torakaka is offline
    Torakaka's Avatar

    Do you eat breakfast?

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kaka village
    Posts
    10,658

    Posted On:
    11/21/2008 12:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Self defense is what my gun is for, and no I do not see a difference. I do understand that there are lots of RBSD guys out there like yourself LARPing bad dudes with their fantasy based self defense training, though.
  5. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,976

    Posted On:
    11/22/2008 10:45am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambamatic
    Sorry, but this is silly. I've been involved in the MA for over 15 years in two different styles of Kenpo Karate (10+ yrs), Kickboxing, Aikido (1 yr), Wrestling (4 years in HS), and now I focus on RBMA through combat JuJitsu and BJJ.

    Although I have competed in BJJ competition and inter-dojo kickboxing matches, I no longer do so. Even when I was occasionally competing, I never had the desire to "be a fighter" and I did not cater my training regime specifically to fight.

    Although I train with guys who fight, I do not fight myself. My interest in the MA is mostly about Reality Based Self Defense now....and there is a tremendous amount of practical knowledge and applciaton involved in the study and training of practical self defense.

    For you to say that someone like me, who has no interest in fighting, but who'se expereince is long and broad, has no business in the MA is just ignorant and insulting as well as plain wrong.
    It is the aikido isn't it?


    Do you even understand the difference between "fighting" and "self-defense"??? It's a huge difference.
    Please peddle this somewhere else. The difference isn't HUGE.
  6. Rambamatic is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    48

    Posted On:
    11/22/2008 2:42pm


     Style: Kenpo & Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    It is the aikido isn't it?


    Please peddle this somewhere else. The difference isn't HUGE.
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula
    Self defense is what my gun is for, and no I do not see a difference. I do understand that there are lots of RBSD guys out there like yourself LARPing bad dudes with their fantasy based self defense training, though.
    Both of you children show your inexperience and ignorance in posting bullshit like this.

    First off, every physical altercation takes place within a very specific cultural and historical context...in other words, the laws governing self defense are different in each state. In order to claim "self defense" as a legal defense against charges of assault, battery, or other physical threats, certain conditions must be met. It doesn't matter if you're defending yourself with your hands or with a gun, if you don't meet those conditions, you're going to jail OR giving a huge portion of your paycheck to the other guy for a long time OR BOTH.

    Self Defense is the legal right of every citizen. Fighting, unless it occurs within sanctioned and controlled circumstance, is ILLEGAL. The first rules of self defense are DO NOT GO TO JAIL and DO NOT END UP GIVING HALF OF YOUR PAYCHECK TO THE OTHER GUY FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

    For example, in most states you cannot claim self defense if you did anything to deliberately escalate the situation. For example, if a guy calls you a name at a bar or says something about your girl and you go up to him and say "what did you say?" and then get into words with him that lead to a fight, you cannot claim self defense.

    In most states, you are also required to attempt to retreat before you engage. You are also required to use an "appropriate" level of force to end the threat, and nothing more. That means that, in most states, if a guy threatens to punch you and you pull out your gun and threaten him with it, you are going to jail. Why? Because a threat of deadly force is not commensurate to the level of threat that you are responding to.

    When I was in law school, there was a case that a friend of mine worked in legal aid. It involved a martial artist (I forget what style), that found himself assaulted by a drunk guy at a party. They got into words, the other guy "swung first", and the martial artist basically kicked this guy's face in and broke his leg. The other guy required hundreds of thousands of dollars of reconstructive surgery on his face, and several operations invovling pins to put his leg back together.

    Long story short, the martial artist was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO ENTER A DEFENSE OF "SELF DEFENSE" IN COURT. Why? Because he got into a verbal fight with the guy first, thus escalating the situation, and never made an attempt to retreat. Additionally, his level of response was not appropriate to the level of threat (especaially since the other guy was drunk. May seem silly, but that's the kind of thing that the courts look at). Long story short, the guy gets 24 months in prison, and all of the societal perks that go along with being a conviced violent felon.....then, when he got out of jail, he had a lawsuit for $1,000,000 waiting for him.

    This young man's life was DESTROYED by his lack of understanding of the law and the difference between fighting and self defense. That was the impetus for me to change my outlook and begin training in a different manner.

    Additionally, there are the obvious differences such as no referees, limited ability to grapple due to the type of surface you may be fighting on, the possibility of weapons, multiple attackers, etc. A lot of real self defense training is about how to GET AWAY from the confrontation and escape before you do get jumped by his buddies, or, in the pre-assault stage of confrontation, set yourself up so that you're legally indemnified.

    Same thing with the moves that are barred in sport fighting....fish-hooking, eye attacks, throat attacks, groin attacks....nobody is going to stop you from sticking fingers in eyes in a self defense situation. However, the law considers blinding a person to be a level of force just shy of lethal. If you blind someone by attacking their eyes, even if you don't go to jail, you're going to pay through the nose in a civil action. Trained martial artists whether it be in boxing, karate, jujitsu, wrestling, MMA, kung fu....whatever...ARE HELD TO A HIGHER LEGAL STANDARD THAN THE AVERAGE CITIZEN. What joe blow on the street can get away with, you (the person with training) cannot. It may not be fair, but ITS THE LAW.

    There was a case recently in which there was a brother, a sister, and the sister's husband, who was a drunk and beat her. One day she shows up at her brother's house begging him to protect her from the husband who was drunk and violent. So, a few hours later, the husband shows up WITH A GUN, banging on the door, trying to force his way in. The brother goes and gets his own gun, opens the door, points it at the brother and tells him to drop his weapon and leave. The husband raises his weapon to fire, and the brother shoots, killing him.

    In court, the husband was found guilty of second degree manslaughter and went to jail EVEN THOUGH HE WAS IN HIS OWN HOUSE, PROTECTING HIS SISTER FROM AN ARMED ASSAILANT WHO HAD A GUN AND WAS THREATENING THEM. Why? Because the brother WAS THE FIRST ONE TO POINT HIS WEAPON AND THREATEN WITH IT.....

    Sounds stupid? Sure. BUT THAT'S THE WAY THE LAW WORKS, AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE IGNORANT OF. Your inability to understand how the world works and train in a manner that is appropriate to how that world works shows that YOU are the ones who are LARPing....and your lack of understanding is not just laughable, it's dangerous to your own well being and the well being of others.

    That's just 1 dimension. Then, there's the entire dimension of the physioligal responses to actual violence that occur.....things like tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, hypervigilance, the physiological response to hormonally induced arousal as opposed to cardiovascular or muscular induced arousal....basically, what actually happens to people's minds and bodies when they're in situations of intense physical and mental stress related to interpersonal violence.

    There is an entire field of study based upon looking at what the EVIDENCE tells us happens during physical encounters. Guys like Loren Christensen and Bruce Siddle and David Grossman all come from law enforcement or military backgrounds and have spent their entire lives studying what the data that have been collected over the years tell us about the difference between self defense and fighting are, and what actually happens in real life confrontations. I'd encourage you to read some of their work.
    Last edited by Rambamatic; 11/22/2008 3:46pm at .
  7. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,976

    Posted On:
    11/22/2008 3:52pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambamatic
    Both of you children show your inexperience and ignorance in posting bullshit like this.
    Ah already reduced to petty insults. The Aikido reference was a dig at your arrogance.

    Which you demonstrate further with the rest of your post:


    First off, every physical altercation takes place within a very specific cultural and historical context...in other words, the laws governing self defense are different in each state. In order to claim "self defense" as a legal defense against charges of assault, battery, or other physical threats, certain conditions must be met. It doesn't matter if you're defending yourself with your hands or with a gun, if you don't meet those conditions, you're going to jail OR giving a huge portion of your paycheck to the other guy for a long time OR BOTH.
    Yes, semantics.

    See this is a strawman. I said there isn't a huge different between a fight or Self defense. I'm talking training you are talking law. You left if vague on purpose. I made a snide comment on purpose. Thing is, self defense occurs during a fight. I always find it funny when RBSDers (anyone really) try to create this false dichotomy. If I attack you we are fighting. Yes, in the court you will claim self defense but, you we are fighting even if you are defending yourself.

    Legality comes later.


    Self Defense is the legal right of every citizen. Fighting, unless it occurs within sanctioned and controlled circumstance, is ILLEGAL. The first rules of self defense are DO NOT GO TO JAIL and DO NOT END UP GIVING HALF OF YOUR PAYCHECK TO THE OTHER GUY FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.
    Semantics. All of this occurs during a fight.

    See above explanation.


    For example, in most states you cannot claim self defense if you did anything to deliberately escalate the situation. For example, if a guy calls you a name at a bar or says something about your girl and you go up to him and say "what did you say?" and then get into words with him that lead to a fight, you cannot claim self defense.

    In most states, you are also required to attempt to retreat before you engage. You are also required to use an "appropriate" level of force to end the threat, and nothing more. That means that, in most states, if a guy threatens to punch you and you pull out your gun and threaten him with it, you are going to jail. Why? Because a threat of deadly force is not commensurate to the level of threat that you are responding to.
    See, this is called de-escalation. I do not need to ever take any type of Martial Art to learn these tactics. Actually, I learned that before I ever took my first Martial Arts class. Again, you are trying to create a strawman.

    I can take classes, that aren't Martial related, and learn everything you just suggested.

    Once again, there isn't a huge difference between fighting and self defense.


    When I was in law school, there was a case that a friend of mine worked in legal aid. It involved a martial artist (I forget what style), that found himself assaulted by a drunk guy at a party. They got into words, the other guy "swung first", and the martial artist basically kicked this guy's face in and broke his leg. The other guy required hundreds of thousands of dollars of reconstructive surgery on his face, and several operations invovling pins to put his leg back together.

    Long story short, the martial artist was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO ENTER A DEFENSE OF "SELF DEFENSE" IN COURT. Why? Because he got into a verbal fight with the guy first, thus escalating the situation, and never made an attempt to retreat. Additionally, his level of response was not appropriate to the level of threat (especaially since the other guy was drunk. May seem silly, but that's the kind of thing that the courts look at). Long story short, the guy gets 24 months in prison, and all of the societal perks that go along with being a conviced violent felon.....then, when he got out of jail, he had a lawsuit for $1,000,000 waiting for him.
    This young man's life was DESTROYED by his lack of understanding of the law and the difference between fighting and self defense. That was the impetus for me to change my outlook and begin training in a different manner.
    That's fine. Okay again what does this have to do with Self Defense vs Fighting? Nothing. Escalation and De-escalation are things you should learn whether you are a Martial Artist or not, a fighter or not, or a RBSDer or not.

    That isn't a Martial Arts fault. That is his fault he should have been taught this by his parents. Lacking parents, someone should have taught him this somewhere. Notice, I haven't said it is wrong to teach these principles in class. Again this is your personal anecdote to why, you believe fighting and self defense are different.


    That's just 1 dimension. Then, there's the entire dimension of the physioligal responses to actual violence that occur.....things like tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, hypervigilance, the physiological response to hormonally induced arousal as opposed to cardiovascular or muscular induced arousal....basically, what actually happens to people's minds and bodies when they're in situations of intense physical and mental stress related to interpersonal violence.

    There is an entire field of study based upon looking at what the EVIDENCE tells us happens during physical encounters. Guys like Loren Christensen and Bruce Siddle and David Grossman all come from law enforcement or military backgrounds and have spent their entire lives studying what the data that have been collected over the years tell us about the difference between self defense and fighting are, and what actually happens in real life confrontations. I'd encourage you to read some of their work.
    I have read their work. I also know not to throw it in as some kind of red herring. Be clear when you type.


    The psychology behind both are different. Then again if we follow this logic. Your RBSD training is no different from fight training because, neither (as you are separating them) replicate the exact emotions that happen in a real Self defense or fighting situation.

    Self defense training isn't hugely different from fight training. Now, if you want to get into laws, flight or flight, and the psychology of mindset, we need to create another thread.

    Please stop the appeal to YOUR authority.

    Sorry, but this is silly. I've been involved in the MA for over 15 years in two different styles of Kenpo Karate (10+ yrs), Kickboxing, Aikido (1 yr), Wrestling (4 years in HS), and now I focus on RBMA through combat JuJitsu and BJJ.
    When I was in law school, there was a case that a friend of mine worked in legal aid.
    Forums are for discussion. If you can't handle disagreement, you need to learn those de-escalation tactics you just preached.
  8. iwannaseevids is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3

    Posted On:
    11/22/2008 4:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambamatic
    . The first rules of self defense are DO NOT GO TO JAIL and DO NOT END UP GIVING HALF OF YOUR PAYCHECK TO THE OTHER GUY FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.
    I disagree the first rule of self defense is to get home safely - legality is defiantly secondary. The law is of no use if your dead
  9. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,976

    Posted On:
    11/22/2008 5:07pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why didn't you post before I wasted my time.

    :)
  10. Rambamatic is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    48

    Posted On:
    11/26/2008 11:13am


     Style: Kenpo & Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Ah already reduced to petty insults. The Aikido reference was a dig at your arrogance.

    Which you demonstrate further with the rest of your post:



    Yes, semantics.

    See this is a strawman. I said there isn't a huge different between a fight or Self defense. I'm talking training you are talking law. You left if vague on purpose. I made a snide comment on purpose. Thing is, self defense occurs during a fight. I always find it funny when RBSDers (anyone really) try to create this false dichotomy. If I attack you we are fighting. Yes, in the court you will claim self defense but, you we are fighting even if you are defending yourself.

    Legality comes later.


    Semantics. All of this occurs during a fight.

    See above explanation.




    See, this is called de-escalation. I do not need to ever take any type of Martial Art to learn these tactics. Actually, I learned that before I ever took my first Martial Arts class. Again, you are trying to create a strawman.

    I can take classes, that aren't Martial related, and learn everything you just suggested.

    Once again, there isn't a huge difference between fighting and self defense.


    That's fine. Okay again what does this have to do with Self Defense vs Fighting? Nothing. Escalation and De-escalation are things you should learn whether you are a Martial Artist or not, a fighter or not, or a RBSDer or not.

    That isn't a Martial Arts fault. That is his fault he should have been taught this by his parents. Lacking parents, someone should have taught him this somewhere. Notice, I haven't said it is wrong to teach these principles in class. Again this is your personal anecdote to why, you believe fighting and self defense are different.


    I have read their work. I also know not to throw it in as some kind of red herring. Be clear when you type.


    The psychology behind both are different. Then again if we follow this logic. Your RBSD training is no different from fight training because, neither (as you are separating them) replicate the exact emotions that happen in a real Self defense or fighting situation.

    Self defense training isn't hugely different from fight training. Now, if you want to get into laws, flight or flight, and the psychology of mindset, we need to create another thread.

    Please stop the appeal to YOUR authority.




    Forums are for discussion. If you can't handle disagreement, you need to learn those de-escalation tactics you just preached.
    Okay, lets start from the beginning. The first point is that my comments were made within a context. I was responding to 1point2's contention that nobody has any business training in the martial arts unless they are planning on "being a fighter". The central point of my OP and the following posts was that there are other, valid reasons that people study martial arts than becoming sport fighters; self defense being one of them. Having stated that, you also should know that my assertion that there are very large and very important differences between sport fighting and self defense does not mean in any way that I am downplaying or denigrating those who train to fight. I have a small group of guys that I help train for MMA, and I also help my training partners to compete in BJJ and kickboxing. I have also competed myself, although I currently do not. The original point that I was making was that people have various reasons for studying the martial arts, and I personally feel that all of them are valid. Simply because there are differences between them doesn't mean that any one is any more or less valid than the others.

    The next point is that you then, by your own admission, made a snide comment in order to bait me into responding aggressively just so that you could start an e-fight....well, when one does this on an internet forum, it's called TROLLING. Well done. And then you have the audacity to try to chide me for MY arrogance? You are a hypocrite.

    I'm sorry, but your "explanation" is exactly ass backwards. It is NOT, as you claim, that self defense is something that happens during a fight. Rather, a FIGHT is something that MAY or MAY NOT happen during the course of a Self Defense situation. Once again, the physical, fighting dimension is only 1 dimension of the holistic view of the self defense picture.

    Your contention is that there is no difference between the two, and that suggesting that there is sets up a "false dichotomy" (as you put it.)

    Well, I'm sorry, but it is not a "dichotomy"....to suggest that there are differences and that those differences are very large and important IS NOT to suggest that they are polar opposites (which is what a dichotomy is). Rather, they are inter-related parts of a larger whole that exist on a continuum with each other. Your "all or nothing", simplistic view of logic in which the suggestion that one thing is different from something else immediately places those things in dichotomy to each other is not valid when discussing this issue AND is a mis-characterization of my point.

    For example, if someone comes up to me, puts a knife to my throat, and demands my wallet and I give him my wallet and he runs off, leaving me unharmed, then I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDED MYSELF. If a bunch of guys come after me in a bar and I escape and get to my car and drive off, then I've successfully defended myself. If I use verbal de-escalation to stop a fight from occurring in the first place, then I've successfully defended myself. In all of those instances, I have not fought at all....but I have defended myself. This notion that you have which states "you're fighting if you're defending yourself" is just wrong....it's backwards from the reality.

    Conversely, if I get into a fight because I didn't understand how to escape or de-escalate and get my ass kicked, I may have used all of the physical techniques at my disposal, but I have not successfully defended myself.

    The training for fighting and for self defense is VERY different in many ways, but there are ways in which it overlaps as well. A jab is a jab. An elbow to the head is an elbow to the head, a choke is a choke. On one level...yes. However, a jab to set up a cross, hook, cut-kick combo against a fighter in a cage is very different from using a jab in a parking lot to keep space from an attacker as you retreat to a safer environment.

    If I am training my guys for an MMA fight, I'm not going to waste time teaching them de-escalation techniques or multiple attacker drills or knife defenses. If I'm teaching people who are never going to sport fight, I'm not going to waste their time teaching them advanced rubber guard techniques or how to chain stylistically targeted counters and combinations or how to rack up points for a decision against an opponent that he's not likely to knock out or submit.

    When it comes to how you're going to respond in the real world, you are going to respond in exactly the way that you train. What goes in during training comes out in practice. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Things that are TRAINED in self-defense schools such as pre-conflict strategic positioning, escape tactics, de-escalation techniques, etc.....need to be TRAINED in order to be used effectively. You speak about these things as thought they're just stuff that you "learn" in life, that you don't have to practice in order to use effectively. Well, that's just wrong. If you are not TRAINED in verbal de-escalation techniques, then you're not going to be very good at verbal de-escalation...and you're not going to respond that way when you need to. If you're not TRAINED to try to escape rather than go toe to toe, then you're not going to respond that way. If you're not TRAINED to use your environment (hiding behind obstructions, looking for exits, using items as shields or deterrents, etc.) then you're not going to respond that way in an encounter. If you're not TRAINED to give the attacker what he wants, then you're not going to respond that way when it matters.

    A teacher at a traditional MA school that I went to to help my instructor teach a seminar told a story about when he saw a woman get her purse snatched. When the guy grabbed the purse and tried to yank it away, she clamped down on it and refused to let go. He pulled and pulled and she wouldn't let go. She wasn't fighting back, she was just locked on. So, he clocked her in the head and knocked her down and hit her on the ground a few times. At that point, the guy telling the story was almost on top of the guy, and so he ripped the purse free and took off. The MA instructor tended to her, and they called and ambulance and she was all right, but a bit hurt. After telling the story, he said "I just couldn't figure out why she didn't just let go and give him the purse. If I hadn't been there to chase him off, she might have been seriously injured."

    My instructor then explained to him that what she did was called "hyper-vigilance" and it's a physiological stress-response to a stimulus. She COULDN'T let go because her body literally went into minor shock, dumped hormones into her, doubled her heartbeat in about a second and a half, and she couldn't operate her muscles or get command of her faculties. She was probably experiencing other phenomena such as tunnel vision or auditory exclusion as well.

    The point here is that for many people, the response of "just let go of the purse and let him take it" is a response that needs to be TRAINED into someone. You can say it all you want and it doesn't mean squat. You actually need to put a purse in a woman's hand, get her into a hormonally induced stress state, and then have her practice and TRAIN letting go. Similarly, if all you train to do when someone puts a knife to you and asks for money is immediately engage and disarm, that's how you're going to respond. You need to give the student a wallet and practice handing it over and only engaging if absolutely necessary in order for that response to be effective.

    You can be "taught" by your parents, your school, by whomever....about how to avoid a fight or what may be "excessive force", etc. However, if you don't TRAIN and practice in a way that requires you to USE those technques, you're not going to use them because they're just abstract ideas in your head that have not been ingrained as conditioned responses.

    Your contention that neither situation (sport fighting or RBSD) actually re-creates the exact conditions that occur duing an encounter is accurate to an extent. However, there are a lot of very good drills and TRAINING techniques that condition students to responses that are much CLOSER to an actual self-defense situation than training for a sport fight. For example, there are methods for inducing a hormonal stress response in a person that have been used in clinical settings for a long time. If you take a student, induce that hormonal response, and THEN force him to react and respond to a threat or a POTENTIAL threat, it begins to build a tolerance to that response. It's called "stress innoculation" and although a similar form of it is built up naturally in sport fight training, the two and the technques used for each, are very different.

    Once again, offered as an example, in a self defense setting, you constantly need to be, as you are responding to a threat, scanning your environment for new threats, weapons, looking for escape routes, and you need to be conditioned and TRAINED to feel when you, as a trained martial artist, are going over the line.....when a restraint to a downed opponent may be more appropriate than a knee to the head of that same opponent...or when it's appropriate to dis-engage and flee. None of this is applicable to sport fighting because those concerns are not the concerns that one has inside of a cage. The goals, techniques, and training methods are different.

    So, I know that perhaps YOU have been TAUGHT all about the laws of self-defense, de-escalation, non-violent conflict resolution, pre-assault cues, pre-conflict strategic positioning, stress innoculation, the use of force continuum, restraint vs destruction, and all of those things, in non-martial arts related settings. Good for you. BUT HOW OFTEN TO YOU TRAIN....NOT TALK, NOT THINK ABOUT, BUT ACTUALLY PRACTICE AND TRAIN USING THOSE TECHNIQUES IN SITUATIONS AND SCENARIOS THAT FORCE YOU TO RESPOND AND USE THEM? And maybe you do...but perhaps others have not, and perhaps those people come into an RBSD training program to develop those skills....and your arrogant ass is going to criticize them for it or criticize us for teaching it to them? You are a piece or work.

    What you claim as an appeal to my "authority" as you put it, is simply my statement of the experience that I come from, just as your opinion comes from yours. I happen to have a level of expertise and hands on experience in a dimension (the legal dimension) of what we're discussing here that is not shared by most people. If I have appealed to my authority, it's because I have experience in the real world seeing how these things can and do affect real people where the rubber meets the road. Your appeal to your own authority while chastising me for my own is just another example of your immaturity and your hypocrisy.

    I have provided practical examples and detailed explanations for all of my points, including case law, training methods, hypothetical situations, theoretical frameworks, scientific information regarding physiological evidence, and cited noted researchers whose work underlies my conclusions. All you have done is respond by spliting semantic hairs and playing word games....and then you have the audactity and the arrogance to say that I'm the one who is splitting hairs and setting up a straw man? The psychological projection is obvious for anyone to see, and the hypocrisy of your ignorant and ill-informed viewpoint is equally as obvious.
    Last edited by Rambamatic; 11/26/2008 4:07pm at .
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.