Thread: St. Louis Training Circle
12/08/2008 3:05pm, #11
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Thanks for being an arbitrator of sorts Christmas Spirit. It seems this GUY, oops I meant these guys can't get their stories straight. What is it? A big gym filled with equipment from one end to the next or four pair of Twins gloves and some Thai pads. Don't give me this on backorder crap.
And what's with all the creepy "WE" talk? Have you gotten a hold of one of those Venom symbiotes? Tyler Durdin much? No sir, "WE" don't want a war at all.... I will personally contact present and past members of this gym so we can get some real unbiased reviews.
12/08/2008 9:08pm, #12
Originally Posted by stl freestyle
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Sinsinnatti Oh Hi Ho
- Recovery(lung surgeries)
It seems this GUY, oops I meant these guys can't get their stories straight. What is it? A big gym filled with equipment from one end to the next or four pair of Twins gloves and some Thai pads. Don't give me this on backorder crap.
As for the equipment , are you saying that intentions are not reality ? because honestly the equipment doesn't matter for **** when it comes down to it . I would rate my boxing club as a four or three in equipment if I gave them a review but they offer good instruction , and just about everyone but me fights or trains to fight in ammy comps of some sort .
And what's with all the creepy "WE" talk? Have you gotten a hold of one of those Venom symbiotes? Tyler Durdin much? No sir, "WE" don't want a war at all....
I will personally contact present and past members of this gym so we can get some real unbiased reviews.
12/10/2008 9:55am, #13
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
This is the "Real Dwayne Rhoden" baby - accept no imitations...Originally Posted by Christmas Spirit
This is an example of what Brendon Moore (STL Freestyle) is willing to do.
The reason he does this sort of thing is because he is a liar. Not only is he dishonest in posting under my name (which should be an insult to anyone reading this - he thinks you are stupid an it is his place to dupe you) but he is dishonest in most of what he has to say about our club.
Some of what he has to say is true.
I have no desire to represent our club dishonestly, so I'll post in just a minute and say what is true and what is false. It will be a genuine post that admits to shortcomings at the club, as well as boasting of what we really have to offer.
Hopefully, since I am not creating weird false accounts and making weird, degrading posts under those false accounts, people will hear me out.
Also, to verify what I am saying, we fully intend to videotape several of our training sessions.
There you will see some of the problems that we have in our game, and you will also see that we are a dynamic, alive training group that has steadily built its skills for the past few months - some of us almost a year now.
I will post the video so that the reader can decide - because that is the only real opinion that matters. You guys can watch us fight, and decide for yourself.
We are what we are, and nothing else.
We have a great time, we workout hard, we leave sweaty and bruised.
Anyone who thinks that sounds like a good time is welcome - always.
12/10/2008 9:58am, #14
Originally Posted by Christmas Spirit
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Second of all, if you don't like the rating systems being screwed with because you like this site - you have only STL Freestyle to thank for that - he's the one who made the post to start with..
I'll post about what we do and don't do next.
12/10/2008 10:05am, #15Originally Posted by deludedsloth
Second, the last thing you want to do is start attacking established posters. The rating system isn't broken. It is the posters that don't read the rules that try to ruin things for others.
Take a deep breath, calm down and post your refutations.
12/10/2008 10:46am, #16
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
The real deal with St. Louis Training Circle - Weaknesses and Strengths Spotlighted
Ok, people. Enough of the childish bullshit.
These are the real weaknesses and strengths and St. Louis Training Circle.
None of those scores correctly qualifies us. I rank us an 8.
8-9: Hard contact with reasonable safety gear and/or limited to one range of fighting (standup/grappling).
The thing is, we mostly fight at medium contact, but we wear minimum safety gear. We are not limited to one range of fighting - we work
Standup striking - unattached
Clinch striking - Attached striking in Thai and greco control positions
Clinch Takedowns - Mostly greco and folk wrestling with some "judo"
Ground fighting - grappling and submission grappling for position, for submission and with striking included
It depends on the day, but we work all four of those ranges at all contact levels from very light and compliant (when a guy is learning a move, he is totally new, or he is injured) to pretty damned hard (black eyes and tweaked shoulders)
We DON'T wear headgear. Mouthpiece, cup, and gloves. That's it. Headgear make people lazy and sloppy.
We also don't spar at "knock out" levels, though people have been knocked down more than once.
We train at sane intelligent levels, mixed with levels of reality and pain - as recommended by Straight Blast Gym.
We have a lot of fun. We leave sweaty, exhausted, and smiling. We're all friends, and we train each other well.
Location and space:
Our neighborhood is a little rough.
We work out in a warehouse space in the back of a facility that rents spaces to musicians. (utopiastl.com) The warehouse is isn't the cleanest space, and it's not very organized.
We have two large wrestling rings for sparring and groundfighting. The padding is thick but we sometimes have to move it around at the start of class. It works for us pretty well - you just gotta be careful not to toss anyone through the ropes during standup grappling.
The space is huge, but some of it is taken up with equipment belonging to our rent-mates.
We are a workout group, not a class or school. Therefore, we mostly are a "bring your own gear" gym. Anyone truly interested in training should have his own gear, right?
HOWEVER we do provide gear for new members, and people who won't invest in their own gear (which is true of STL Freestyle, who in the 6 months he trained with us never bought the DISCOUNTED american standup gear we offer to our members)
Yes, you heard that right - we are sponsored by American Standup and offer their gear to our members at DISCOUNT prices. That is one benefit of our club. You can get pro level boxing gloves for $33. You can get pro level mma training gloves for $21 and Shins for $18.
STL Freestyle took advantage of NONE OF THAT and NEVER bought his own gear.
Our gear as of now:
1 pair thai pads
7 pairs 16 oz boxing gloves (3 pairs well worn, but very serviceable - 4 pairs new and shiny)
1 body shield for active focus mitts (we do these very, very rarely - we spar and drill primarily)
2 pairs MMA training gloves
DVD player and TV for reviewing DVD's in class
2 heavy bags currently hanging
3 heavy bags currently not yet hanging
1 double end bag
2 speed bags (not hanging - we don't hit bags much here - we spar and drill)
2 large padded fighting rings (square, not octagon)
That is the equipment we have. That is the equipment we need. I scored us a 5 because that is the honest answer.
Instructor Student Ratio
We are a training group. It says so on our website. STL Freestyle is whining because he says the instruction sucked.
Why on earth would he go to a training group for instruction? Especially if the website says quite clearly we are a training group working mostly from DVDs and seminars with no instructor?
It says it right there on the site "Important Read: We are a Club Not a Class - Click here!"
It says it on EVERY SINGLE PAGE of the website.
Because we don't want to misrepresent what we do.
If you go to a workout group, or a training group, and they give you ANY instruction - that's a bonus.
We have NO instructors.
We self coach and share what we got.
Athletes from fighting and combat sport often come through our gym when they are in town, and we grow from those experiences. A prime example is Chris Wellstood, SBG Jits instructor from MAP in Canada. We have had San Shou fighters come through (and OWN us, baby..that guy was tough..) we have had Big 10 Greco competitors as well as sub wrestlers who work out at other local gyms. We grow from each experience and we take a little and give a little as we go.
And STL Freestyle KNOWS that, becuase he was actually training with us for SIX MONTHS, not the single month he is claiming (his posts are full of similar lies - I'm not going to expose all of them here..he's just not credible..)
Anyone looking for an instructor should go to Rodrigo Vaghi in Fenton, or Kirkwood Judo Club. We have no instructor - we are a training group, using the methods of Straight Blast Gym (mostly) through DVD's and Camps.
Speaking of Camps, the SBGi Fall Camp, in Boston, rocked this year. Good people, good training, and great fun outside of the training as well. Went to local bars and watched the fights.
As far as my contact with Matt Thornton - it is brief and friendly. We don't message each other constantly, nor have I made any similar claim. I do help him with some marketing stuff for his gym and his headquarters, and we share a friendly word on occasion in email. He does support what we are doing at our gym, and we will be an ATG in January (when I can afford to pay the monthly fee.) We are currently eligible to become an ATG - I just have to pay.
And that's hard to do when you only charge $50 a month membership. But we don't have a teacher - we are a club. So why would I charge more? It would be dishonest.
Even though we have no instructors, we do peer coach. We use the Crazy Monkey boxing started by Rodney King and available on DVD from Straight Blast Gym production here.
After the fighter has learned to defend with this Mixed Martial Arts fortress fighter system, we have him open his guard and relax his shoulders and take more of a boxing style stance and method - only using the crazy monkey position when he is getting rocked with bombs.
We work the corner drill a lot - we warm up our boxing game with it every class.
We DO NOT WORK FOCUS MITTS - because focus mitts are lame.
We do all alive, partner drills. We do counterpunch drills, breaking through to clinch drills, double leg the puncher drills - and they are all against some level of PROGRESSIVE resistance.
We spar a lot. People get black eyes (once they have the skills to spar at that level) people get fat ears and swollen lips (we don't use headgear) and people have been TKO'd to the mat.
However, we are PROGRESSIVE - until someone has the skills, they don't spar hard - PERIOD.
This is also based on methods learned from Straight Blast Gym international.
We don't kick much - and that is a weakness in our game. We have mostly concentrated on Western Boxing focussed at street and cage usage.
We have just started adding kicking, after the SBGi Boston seminar. Steve Whittier is a Sityodong Muay Thai instructor, and I was really impressed by the slippery, intelligent Sityodong game.
I really had my ass handed to me by one of his fighters - and it was great. I was shaken up all night - totally changed my view on kicking. It was an awesome, positive experience and encouraged me to grow beyond my current limits.
We will be kickers now, too!
In a lot of ways up until now our grappling instruction has been really rough.
I am, far and away, no instructor. I am definitely not a grappling instructor.
I never made any claim to be one.
We do, however, have GREAT TRAINING in the grappling range.
We train alive both in clinch grappling and in our groundfighting. We train fundamentals and high percentage moves mostly from SBGi training materials.
Now I have Cody (Tyler2112) teaching the grappling. He really isn't a grappling instructor either. He makes no claim to be one, and I make no claim for him.
But he DOES really really get the grappling game.
And our members, Johnny, Nowell, and the rest, are really getting the grappling game in their own right. And together, they all seem to figure it out pretty well.
My grappling game has only gotten slightly better. I don't get it as fast. No big deal. That's the benefit of a TRAINING GROUP - we help each other train - and the others are helping my grappling.
American Standup MMA Gear
Muscle Milk Supplements
We get a drastic discount from both of these companies, and we pass that discount directly on to our members. You can get Muscle Milk products at better than 50% off with our sponsorship. You can get MMA Gear at knockdown prices - we don't make a single cent off of your purchase.
We have community like no other gym. We are all friendly, genuine and sincerely interested in each other, and new members', training experience. Each one of us does our best for each one of us. We go out for beers twice monthly, and we help each other now and then when a piece of furniture needs moved.
We are dirt cheap. We don't have an instructor, and we have low overhead, so we can charge $50 per month for visiting 3 times per week (11 hours of total training time) or $40 per month if you want to visit 2 times per week (up to 8 hours total training time.)
That is dirt cheap. And it is honest. We are training from DVD's and seminars in a warehouse. No one makes a red cent off of our club's "profits." We haven't even had profits yet. All money has gone to the website, the marketing, the gear, the rental space we workout in..etc.
We have no bowing, no rituals, no "respect" no bullshit period! And we have no instructors - and when we do have instructors - there will still be none of this.
This informal characteristic gives great flexibility to how we train and what we train.
Each person has the opportunity to give his input to the workout. STL FReestyle was asked ALMOST EVERY SINGLE CLASS if he wanted to do something different, or differently. He never gave his input, for six months.
All members can give their input to what they want to work on.. We have only this guideline: We work only on high percentage, fundamental fighting movements that are succesful when performed against aggressive, resisting, athletic opponents.
Outside of that limitation, it is really up to each club member where he wants the workouts to go. Everyone has an input.
Last weekend we worked on T-shirt chokes, for example - straight off the Chris Hauter Street Jits DVD Series - and only because the class wanted to do so.
So, that is the truth about our gym. If you want to fight at contact levels that will cut your face open or break your clavicle, you might not want to come around. We aren't stupid, and we do train at hard contact levels - just not constantly, and not before a member has developed the skills necessary for it.
We have never competed, and won't be ready to do so anytime soon. We are not ready to train anyone who says "I want to make MMA my career" and when people call us on the phone, that is exactly what I say to them.
I then tell them to go to Rodrigo Vaghi. Because that is the best I can do for them.
But for the "average joe" who wants to train at athletic levels, can't afford to pay a lot and needs to be able to go to work tomorrow - we are a great deal.
We will post the videos of our training sessions. Those will be the TRUE chance for the readers of this forum to see for themselves, outside of STL Freestyle's false words and false user accounts.
We are what we are, nothing else. We have fun, we train hard, and we leave sweaty and feeling better about life.
We claim to be nothing more, nothing less - not here, and not on our website.
All friendly primates are welcome to join in, play our athletic games, and share in our community.
Director - St. Louis Training Circle
12/10/2008 10:48am, #17
Originally Posted by It is Fake
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
But I could probably stand to take a deep breath.
12/10/2008 11:39am, #18
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- New York, NY USA
- Taai Si Ji Kung Fu
The userid 'Dwayne Rhoden' appears to be a sockpuppet account for 'stl freestyle' and has been permanently banned. I'm leaving 'stl freestyle' active for amusement purposes.
If you feel it to be in order, you might feel the need to start a separate YMAS thread on Brendon Moore/'stl freestyle' which references this thread and gives details what you believe is going on, but I can't ask you to.
Last edited by Tom Kagan; 12/10/2008 11:50am at .Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
"Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ
"Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken
My Bullshido fan club threads:
Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
ATTN TOM KAGAN
World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
12/10/2008 11:48am, #19
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Also, to be clear:
It is actually a SPONSORSHIP we have with Cyto - it is the same sponsor level the offer to Collegiate Sport Teams. We receive more than a 50% discount on ALL of their products - included their high quality designer proteins and meal replacements (something that my skinny ass is going to have to take advantage of..)
It is also a SPONSORSHIP that we have with American Standup. HOWEVER, we have no actively fighting Fight Team (because none of us are ready..) and so we don't get their products for free. Instead, we receive a discount that is more than 50% with them as well.
We purchase at wholesale price - but it is still a sponsorship.
12/10/2008 11:51am, #20
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Thanks to eachOriginally Posted by Tom Kagan
I also appreciate the fast response of Bullshido.com's moderators.
You guys were quick (I sent you the alert less than an hour before you called me via phone) and your verification methods were thorough.
Thanks much. Few sites on MMA matter, but this one is different.
I've been a happy lurker here for some time now.
And thanks to our club members who took the time to show up and represent what we DO and what we DON'T DO at our club.
We'll have video of our workouts and training up within a week's time.
Last edited by deludedsloth; 12/10/2008 11:52am at . Reason: added the part about the video availability