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  1. foxd is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 9:37am


     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Mistelling the Gracie/Kimura match.

    Everyone knows about the Gracie vs. Kimura match. I thought it'd be common knowledge among people that Kimura broke Helio's arm with the keylock and the Gracies named the move after him in honor of it.

    What's been bothering me is that I've heard at least two separate and wrong version of the stories. The first one I heard was from a BJJ brown, which bugged the hell out of me cause I figured he'd know better. As he told it, Helio actually broke Kimura's arm with the lock, and they named it after him because of that.

    What?

    That doesn't bother me as much, however, as the second story I heard just recently. I was doing an article for the campus paper on a martial arts club we have on campus, where the instructor is a 5th Dan in Hapkido with a few years of Catch training. What he said happened is that Lou freakin' Thesz went down to Brazil and broke Helio's arm with the keylock. He then looked me in the eye, totally serious, and said that's why they named it the Kimura.

    I don't know how the hell you get that from Lou Thesz....maybe he secretly had a Japanese cousin or something?

    I just wanted to ask though, is this just a natural mutation of a legend or something? Do people mistell stories in favor of their art? Am I gonna hear the story told from the view of a tae kwon do practioner about how some guy broke Helio's arm with an outside crescent kick?
  2. rocketsurgeon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 9:43am


     Style: hard work work

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ever see the patch for Isshinryu? It's a chick sitting crosslegged who supposedly came to the founder in a dream. My instructor told me that story straight faced when I was a lad. Who knows what the kimura story will be in a couple of hundred years.
  3. PointyShinyBurn is offline
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar

    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 9:44am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One would think, indeed hope, that the 'natural evolution of a legend' would be forestalled slightly by the fact that you can YouTube this **** up and see exactly what happened in a handful of seconds...
  4. E-Van is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:03am


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsurgeon
    Ever see the patch for Isshinryu? It's a chick sitting crosslegged who supposedly came to the founder in a dream. My instructor told me that story straight faced when I was a lad. Who knows what the kimura story will be in a couple of hundred years.
    Well... he told you that because that is the actual story of the patch.
    Website Administrator Tom Kagan just loves email, instant messages, private messages, text messages, tweets, status updates, and every kind of personal contact. You can reah him at his personal email account at [EDITED BY TOM KAGAN] or even on his cell phone number at [EDITED BY TOM KAGAN].
  5. foxd is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:28am


     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    One would think, indeed hope, that the 'natural evolution of a legend' would be forestalled slightly by the fact that you can YouTube this **** up and see exactly what happened in a handful of seconds...
    Hope, yeah. Count on, I guess not. I was just confused because hell, even Wikipedia has it right.
  6. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:39am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by foxd
    I've just wanted to ask though, is this just a natural mutation of a legend or something? Do people mistell stories in favor of their art? Am I gonna hear the story told from the view of a tae kwon do practioner about how some guy broke Helio's arm with an outside crescent kick?
    I'm guessing you never heard of the 'word of mouth' experiment (I don't remember what it was actually called). Tell one person a story and ask them to pass it along. By the time the story has been told by five people, it's usually only marginally related to the original story that was told.

    Anyone else remember this? It would be pretty funny if it was an urban myth because right now, I can't remember reading an actual study.
  7. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like I say, history matters. Everyone does this, even on Bullshido. For example, people on this site often reference the introduction of 5 minute rounds by the UFC as having been good for the sport. Even with the video evidence, people still ignore the fact that there were 5 minute rounds in *UFC I*. After none of the matches went 5:00, this was dropped for UFC II and re-introduced later. The oft quoted rationalization came from Jason DeLucia's post fight interview in UFC I: 'If the fight goes longer than 5:00, there's something wrong with the way the people are fighting.' Of course no one remembers this either, because this fight isn't on "'In The Beginning". You had to actually have watched the program.
  8. foxd is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:41am


     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, but I remember that one game we used to play in school where you'd say one thing to a person, and they have to whisper on down the line to the next until you get to the end and see how it comes out.

    Like, Peanut Butter becomes Packnut Booty or something.

    So, same thing on a smaller scale?
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:44am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    I'm guessing you never heard of the 'word of mouth' experiment (I don't remember what it was actually called). Tell one person a story and ask them to pass it along. By the time the story has been told by five people, it's usually only marginally related to the original story that was told.

    Anyone else remember this? It would be pretty funny if it was an urban myth because right now, I can't remember reading an actual study.
    Telephone.
  10. joecos is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2008 10:45am


     Style: Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by foxd
    No, but I remember that one game we used to play in school where you'd say one thing to a person, and they have to whisper on down the line to the next until you get to the end and see how it comes out.

    Like, Peanut Butter becomes Packnut Booty or something.

    So, same thing on a smaller scale?
    Yeah, when I was growing up that game was called "telephone".
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