Wang Zhi Peng Ving Tsun (human weapon) a fraud?
Did anyone see the Human Weapon episode with Wing Chun "master", Wang Zhi Peng?
I live in Beijing and have started learning from him...but I have heard some questionable things...
This is his website http://www.bjvingtsun.com/
He claims to be the only Wing Chun teacher in mainland China certified by the Hong Kong Ving Tsun Athletic Association. But I heard some different stories so I wrote to the Hong Kong VT Association and got a letter back from the chairman, Sam Lau. He said they have never heard of him before. Nobody at all from the Yip Man association has heard of him, yet he says he is a direct descendant of Wong Shun Leung and the only master in mainland China.
He says he is the president of the Beijing Ving Tsun Association...but the Hong Kong Ving Tsun association told me that there is no VT Association in Beijing at all. They told me that they did not even know of any qualified teachers in Beijing at all and certainly did not sanction or recommend anyone in Beijing.
I saw some his students doing Wing Chun on youtube. One guy opened a school in Belgium after training under him....but his Wing Chun looked amateurish at best. Mr. Wang is skilled, but I think some of his stories are questionable. If he's the only master in China who is certified, why is it that the HK VT association doesn't know him? How does Human Weapon check their stories? I am no expert in Wing Chun, but I have done other martial arts.
The guy also told me he is heavily involved in MMA and has trained fighters for it...but there is only one organiztion for pro MMA fighting in China..."The Art of War". it is operated by Andy Pi. And I taught Kali at Andy's Brazilian Jiujitsu and MMA school in Beijing...Andy said he doesn't know Wang Zhi Peng at all....(but the guy put a picture on his website standing with Chet Quint and some other BJJ experts here in Beijing from the Gracie schools and none of those guys know him!, he just took a pic with them. Beijing Black Tiger Academy and Beijing Jiujitsu Academy are the only places that have expert BJJ groundfighters in Beijing and the only Gracie authorized schools in Beijing)
The man seems skilled and I believe he has learned Wing Chun...but I am not sure how skilled really...and I think a lot of stories are not true so that makes me question everything. I don't want to hurt this guy in any way. If he's fake, I'll just move on. I just want to find a real teacher and make sure I'm learning the real thing. A lot of things just don't add up.
For example, he says he began Wing Chun in 1997 under Li Heng Chang...but that teacher lives in Hong Kong....and this person can't speak any Cantonese...so where and how did he become a master?
I really want to believe he is real...since he was on Human Weapon, I thought he must be famous...but in the Chinese community, nobody knows him. I checked online in Chinese too and the only things about him are things he put online himself..
Does anyone have any insight? I don't want to say any bad things about someone...but saying you are certified through the HK Ving Tsun Association as a teacher, the ONLY teacher in mainland China is false. There are teachers in Foshan for sure..
And if he was the only mainland expert on Wing Chun, I would think he would be known by the Wing Chun community in Hong Kong.
I am not trying to badmouth anyone. I just want to find out if this guy is for real. I'm hoping that someone can prove he is the real thing and then I'll be happy. It will also be good for the teacher to show everyone he is real.
I don't care if he has certification or not. Bruce Lee didn't have certificates, but he was still sought after because of skill. I am hoping the guy just exaggerated a little in order to get more business. I can understand that. In China, it's hard to make a living...so if he embellished a few things, that's ok. If he only learned Wing Chun for a few years and isn't a master, I don't care, as long as he can teach me the whole system, I can train and perfect it on later...The only problem is, since I don't know Wing Chun, I have no way to recognize if he is highly skilled or not. The way he moves and things like that make me think he is skilled...but I have nothing to compare it to. I have done other martial arts, but not Wing Chun.
Human weapon introduced him as "one of the most revered masters in all of China".
I've lived in China for six years, my wife is Chinese...we checked everywhere, but nobody knows this guy...and that's what makes me worry. A lot of students say good things about him. But when I saw his students, none of them look as if they have trained much before.
I think everyone needs to check a person's lineage in something like Wing Chun...
I am not hung up on certificates, ranks, or lineages...but I don't want to waste time learning unless I am learning something useful.
If you are really skilled, why make up stories?
Or maybe the stories got mixed up in some way? I don't know...but if someone says they are a Wing Chun master, I think it's right to check on those things.
I hope everyone understands where I'm coming from, including my teacher. I mean no disrespect....
But the Ving Tsun Association of Hong Kong says they don't know him, yet he says he is certified as the ONLY mainland teacher from that organization....That would make anyone worry a bit.
I hope someone else may have heard of him or can put my fears at rest. If he's a real teacher, I'll stay with him for the next five years..
But if not, I don't want to waste a minute of my time...
Last edited by Mcleod; 11/22/2008 7:51pm at .
It sounds like this guy is false. If the Hong Kong VT Association has never heard of him, but he claims to be certified by them, then you know that he is lying and that he is a fraud. Same applies for the MMA thing. This is as clear as it could be - he made a claim, you tested it, and found out that it is totally untrue. Even if you respect his fighting ability, he has openly lied to you and other students in order to make more money, thus showing him to be of poor integrity. You don't want to train under an instructor whose integrity you cannot trust. I really doubt that any of his claims are true if no one in the Chinese -ing -un community has even heard of him.
What to do?
As a former Wing Chun student, my recommendation is that you find a sanda instructor, instead. Sanda is pretty popular in China and I'm sure you can find a place that teaches it fairly easily. If you can learn Muay Thai, that'd be even better (in my opinion, because it teaches the use of knees and elbows as well), but I'm not sure how easy it is to find a Muay Thai gym in Beijing. I trained in Wing Chun for years and have found that it is nothing compared to styles such as Western Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Kyokushin, Kun Khmer, Sanda/Sanshou, etc. These are styles which are practical and have been proven to work both on the street and in controlled, organised matches. -ing -chun is a style which only works in theory and has never been proven to work in any form of organised match against opponents of skill.
Last edited by Rask; 11/15/2008 10:30pm at .
Hi..Yeah, I guess you are right...But I do think Wing Chun is effective....I'm 40 years old now. I have done Muay Thai, Silat, Kali, and Taekwondo. I agree that those are more effective in the ring. I'm still in great shape, but I'd like to learn something like Wing Chun since I'm getting older. It's more of an energy based style that you can practice when you are older....It takes a long time to get good at Wing Chun...but anyway, looks like I'll be doing Sanda like you said...if there aren't any Wing Chun teachers in Beijing....
I wonder how he got on Human Weapon as one of the most famous teachers in China though...
I guess they don't check well.
What a disappointment.
I was disappointed too when I realised that I had committed so many years of my life to training a style which was so ineffective. After I started sparring and training in Sanda (I was still doing Wing Chun at this point) I began to realise that Wing Chun as I had been tought it and as I trained it just didn't work against an opponent who was actually trying to punch you in the face and who resisted every technique you tried to apply. I began to make the Sanda classes my priority and eventually I was only attended them.
In my WC training, the opponent would throw a sloppy punch, pull it a few inches from my face, and then leave his fist out there and relax while I applied some fancy technique. I never had to deal with someone trying to tackle me, hold me down and smash my face in, nor someone trying to grab me, push me up against a wall and try to actually punch me in the face... or even just try to actually hit me. lol. It wasn't training which translated into realistic fighting. Real opponents don't pull punches, and they don't leave their arm out there for you to grab, and they don't relax when you try to apply the counter-technique. Training against a 'live' opponent is important for so many reasons, and that is why I started focusing on the Sanda classes.
Anyway, I really do sympathise with you, I know how disappointing it is. I see that you want to do some traditional form of Chinese Martial Art, which is understandable as they are fun, look cool and can be practiced well into one's old age. I'll go out on a limb here and recommend Xing Yi. I don't think it's as effective as combat-sport styles such as Muay Thai, Sanda, Boxing etc, but I get the impression that out of all the traditional Chinese Martial Arts it is the most effective... but then again, I have no experience in it, so take that with a grain of salt. You might want to ask It Is Fake - he trains in Xing Yi.
Looks like I'll just stick with Beijing Jujitsu Academy. I know those guys are for real anyway. They teach BJJ and Sanda there. I don't like Shaolin or any of the traditional stuff really....
I thought Wing Chun was more practical....nothing much fancy about real Wing Chun...just straight hitting...that's what I mean though about finding a good teacher. Real Wing Chun is pretty good...but it's nearly impossible to find someone who can teach the fighting aspect right...
Wing Chun is deceptive like that, I think. It seems very theory based and it works so well on paper or when it's being described by an instructor. "pak sao, step to the blind-side outside his stance, and punch." Unfortunately, things are never that simple, and the amazing theories don't work so well in actual practice. Kind of like Communism. :p
Beijing Jujitsu Academy sounds great... BJJ and Sanda - excellent combination! And don't worry about age and being able to continue training as you get older. I just started BJJ and I was suprised to see a guy who appeared about fifty or sixty rolling with immense skill. Didn't seem like age had affected his ability at all.
Just some additional thoughts: You seem extremely disappointed. Don't be; instead be grateful that you now have the opportunity to train in some of the most effective martial arts out there and become a genuinely well-rounded effective fighter, rather than staying in a less-effective style with a Bullshidoka teacher.
You know this is the selling point of EVERY Wing Chun school out there?
Originally Posted by Mcleod
Let's not turn your MABS thread into a debate on the real chun okay?
There is so much wrong with this statement it is getting your entire thread moved to the CMA forum.
I know those guys are for real anyway. They teach BJJ and Sanda there. I don't like Shaolin or any of the traditional stuff really....
I can only find two Ving Tsun associations operating in Belgium
Originally Posted by Mcleod
Websites are in Flemish/Dutch or French
1) Classical Ving Tsun (G.M.Victor Khan)
2) Wong Shun Leung Wing Chun/Ving Tsun - United Ving Tsun Kung-Fu
None of them claim any connection to Wang Zhi Peng.
I found a French site for the Ving Tsun Kung Fu in Paris, Franše
There the claim is that the teacher is a student of Ning Li, who is a student under Wang Zhi Peng.
Last edited by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs; 11/16/2008 11:48am at .
Well, after going to a few more classes, I am convinced the Master Wang is the real thing. It turns out that there is another Wing Chun teacher in Beijing who is starting rumours and slander about Wang Zhi Peng. This other teacher even sent me private messages to my email box saying that Wang Zhi Peng was fake. My girlfriend checked more and found out that he did learn Wing Chun from Li Heng Chan, who learned directly from Wong Shun Leung. If you go to a few classes, it is pretty easy to see that he is skilled. Someone is posting a lot of bad comments about Wang Zhi Peng on Youtube...and that's what got me wondering about him...
But it turns out that the guy who said those things is a Wing Chun teacher from Germany. Man, sounds like an old kung fu movie!
My master is better than your master, my style can beat your style..
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