Advanced Fighting Systems

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:04pm

Originally Posted by Banisher

KidSpatula,

It is a well known fact that most violent attacks involve multiple attackers and/or weopens. Since this is mainly a RBSD school why shouldn't we train accordingly? You have to prepare yourself for encountering things like that through sparring. When you spar you get hit, so sparring with these tools means you will get clocked from time to time despite our efforts to provide a safe training environment. As Bruce said, "their is no such thing as dry land swimming." If you want to learn to swim you have to get in the water! PERIOD! I don't think you can claim to be an RBSD school otherwise.

We don't just arbitrarily beat students with crow bars, so forgive me if that's the impression I gave. If it was I'll edit my review.

We don't just arbitrarily beat student

Do you have a source for this claim? I have to tell you, that working in the criminal defense system, the majority of criminal assault cases do not involve weapons.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:22pm

Originally Posted by Banisher

Oracle66,

No one "mixed martial arts" before Bruce Lee. Watch UFC 1! No one "mixed martial arts" then either. It was a fighting event placing style against style. Guys realized that they better know how to fight in all 4 ranges to survive and excell in the sport. They needed to learn how to fight on the ground as well as on their feet.

Didn't Shamrock represent a style that incorporated Japanese shoot wrestling and Japanese-rules muay Thai? Didn't Jason Delucia fight with a mixture of 5-animal and white belt level GJJ?

Originally Posted by Banisher

That is when guys started training in MMA which Bruce was saying to do since the 70's. You are right that Chuck incorporated BJJ before JKD. However, Bruce absorbed stuff from Gene Lebelle, Japanese Jujitsu (which is where Jujutsu originated) and wrestling. We were researching the ground game in general way before BJJ even existed.

So much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. How about observing that BJJ began before BL was even born for starters.

Originally Posted by Banisher

JKD guys were very excited about NHB when it first started. Their were litterally NO RULES or weight classes. We were going to be able to fight accordind to how we fight. Eye gouging, head butting, kneeing and kicking to the groin, biting. Then the athletic commision stepped in and wouldn't sanction the events unless rules were enforced making the sport safe. NO HOLDS BARRED is really MANY HOLDS BARRED, don't be decieved.

With the exception of eye gouging and biting, these techniques were available to anyone fighting in early NHB. ALL of them were available to a fighter competing in Vale Tudo in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Banisher

Let me give you another example. I was training with one of my BJJ buddies (he was a purple belt at the time) and he got me into an arm bar. Theoretically since he had me in an armbar I should have not been able to do much. However, he didn't have me locked good enough. He thought I was about to tap but I reached in my jacket and grabbed my (unloaded) 32 cal Deringer and jammed it in his groin to prove a point. The fight would have continued in the cage. In the street I would have won.

You took advantage of his (correct) courtesy in not popping the arm of a fellow gym-mate.

Originally Posted by Banisher

Most JKD guys train for the street, they don't compete. I am a little more open minded and am currently training MMA for some local events. However, I will have to fight according to rules and therefore limit myself, but I understand that. I have also posted an invite to have a throwdown at the studio. I have no problem taking a beating for the sake of learning. I like MMA and alot of JKD guys don't do well in it, by I also understand why.

Ask yourself this: Do the ring-legal techniques practiced in you school constitute an effective MMA strategy? If the answer is 'Yes' then get your fighters in some shows so we can test this claim in public. If not, then ask yourself 'why not?'

**Banisher** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:22pm

Anna Trocity,

Some creep attacks you with a club with full intentions of raping you, and shoves you in the back of your car. Hey your brothers baseball bat is on the floor. Would you pick it up and use it? Of course. So what do you have? A fight between a stick and bat. The stick is a one handed weapen leaving another hand available for hitting. A bat is a 2 handed piece of sporting equipment that can actually hinder you if you don't know how to use it effectively. The traditional baseball swing puts you at a disadvantage because it is overly telegraphed making it easy to defend against with a more maneuverable weopen like a club. Therefore, you better know how to use it efficiently applying principles of economic movement.

You can say that would never happen. However, it is that type of mentality that has created a world full of victems. (just my opinion)

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:27pm

What? Are we in the Marvel Comics Offices?

If I want "What If?" stories I'll renew my subscription.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:31pm

oh yeah if I just so happen to be in my car and get attacked and my brother's baseball bat just so happens to be on the floor then I can have a baseball bat duel with the bad guy! Great thinking! This doesn't sound just a little over the top to you?

I still don't understand how you can claim to spar with crowbars.

**joecos** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:43pm

Originally Posted by Banisher

Oracle66,

...We were researching the ground game in general way before BJJ even existed...

You might want to re-think this statement -- BJJ is far older than JKD.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 12:56pm

Originally Posted by Banisher

Anna Trocity,

Some creep attacks you with a club with full intentions of raping you, and shoves you in the back of your car. Hey your brothers baseball bat is on the floor. Would you pick it up and use it? Of course.

seems like it would be really hard to fight with either a stick OR a bat in the back seat of a car.

i don't think that people here take issue with scenario based training (as long as it is done in an alive manner) but they are more taking issue with the way you are doing that training.

rattan sticks/padded weapons are useful for training
baseball bat/crowbar are not useful for training

shock knives/rubber knives/dull training knives are useful for training
live blades are not useful for training

you do get credit for the use of "creep" in the above scenario. haven't heard that one since the 70's.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 1:00pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

What? Are we in the Marvel Comics Offices?

If I want "What If?" stories I'll renew my subscription.

What If the Banisher Had Lived?

**Banisher** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 1:02pm

This same type of debating has been going on since feudal japan! I tell you all what, I will do some more research on the claims made by my instructors. And I will let you know what I find and where. Whether it is in my favor or not. It still won't be good enough though. you will still bash what I do.

Samuel Browning, what state do you live in? What is your job? Criminal Defense Attorney?
I have never heard of any one getting robbed at "finger point". I heard that claim from Vunak, I have experienced it personally (and have survived because of our training thank you). This could all be coincidental I just believe it to be less than probable.

If you read my post in it's entirety you would see that we are starting a MMA club, so when fighters get fights I will gladly post'em. Win or lose! I am 28 and I am searching for what works and what doesn't, which is why I want to compete and see what MMA has to offer.

I have seen MMA guys go on with arms being snapped in half from trying to stop kicks. His armbar unexpectedly failed and even if it didn't it wouldn't have necessarilly stopped a gun toting asshole from blowing his nuts off. Which is honestly more effective at stopping a fight? JKD, BJJ, TKD, an armbar, or a gun? That is reality!

If it is a falicy that Bruce was the one who started mixing martial arts (so that they work together synergistically, not just arbitrarilly throwing stuff together) then give me some examples so that I can research them please. Anyone who did that back than was considered a heretic, so I give them props.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/12/2008 1:08pm

Originally Posted by Banisher

If it is a falicy that Bruce was the one who started mixing martial arts (so that they work together synergistically, not just arbitrarilly throwing stuff together) then give me some examples so that I can research them please. Anyone who did that back than was considered a heretic, so I give them props.

See what you did? You just tailored the argument to fit your needs. The bold is exactly what Bruce did, he threw stuff together and then worked out what was right and wrong. Also, he never fully finished he DIED, as he was coming to the realization of what he was creating.