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  1. mpark is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 3:26pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    200 students is a *small* school?!
  2. LThornton is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 3:34pm


     Style: JJJ/TSD/MT/BJJ/TLA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For a professional, full-time school... I wouldn't call it *small*, but it's definitely not a big school. I was just reading a profile of a guy in Maryland with two locations with about 900 students between the two schools, probably 600-700 in one of them. (Keith Thompson, Tri-Star Martial Arts. Article's in the November issue of MA Success, MAIA's magazine.)

    Man, that would be a lot of the "business" side of things to run.
  3. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 3:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    200 students, with kids classes, is fairly small/medium-sized. Classes most days a week, only one modest-sized workout area, and a convival, everyone-knows-each-other adult student base is what I saw in my teacher's school at that size.

    It reminds me of Tipping Points' Rule of 150.
  4. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 5:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    This is the best review of any MA-related book I've ever read. I get a 3-for-1 deal on the review, PLUS the added bonus Author's Reply. This review is a fantastic value.

    It just went on my must-buy list.

    EDIT: JESUS FLIPPING CHRIST couldn't you have told me that it's $150!? http://www.small-dojo-big-profits.com/#order

    Where can I get it cheaper?
    When I first bought my school I looked into getting this book. I ended up not getting the book for two reasons, $150 price tag and the McDojo way the book seemed to marketed. I did not want to market my school in any way shape or form like Massie was marketing his book.

    After struggling to run a failing business two year and LOSING $50,000 dollars, my house, my girl, and my dog along the way, I wish I had spent the $150 two years ago to get a little guidance.
  5. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 5:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AeroChick
    I have to agree. It would not be worth the price tag for me to buy it at this stage, already in business for two and a half years and on a lean budget, but three or four years ago when we were just starting out, this would have been a worthwhile investment.
    I cannot disagree with you more. You need this book just as much as anyone. Is your school is successful and you don't need Massie's advice, $150 is a small price to pay for confirmation that you are doing things right.

    If Massie's book helps you bring in just one more student, or keep an existing student for a couple more months, it pays for its self.

    Two years ago I took over a failing school that was losing $2,000 per month right from the start. I struggled and fought and fought, and finally got the business to a point where it is breaking even. It took me two years to do it and it cost me nearly everything but I did it all by myself and I am proud of what I did.

    Last month I hired a business and marketing coach. I'm paying her $1,500 per month, ten times what Massie's book costs. Sounds expensive, but if her first month on the job, my marketing coach was able to show be how to go from breaking even, to clearing $4,000 per month by shutting down one of my under performing locations.

    What would have happened to me and my school if I hadn't spent that $1,500 I really didn't think I had?

    How much more money would I have now if I spent $150 two years ago?
  6. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 5:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    This is Michael Massie's reply

    Thanks Samuel!

    The average student in my school takes 4.5 years to earn a black belt. In 20 years of teaching, I've promoted maybe a dozen people to first dan. It's true that no one gets a black belt from me without paying for it, but the pay is blood, sweat, and tears.
    This excerpt from Massie's reply gave me pause a little bit. It makes me wonder about Massie's ability to retain students.

    My school has been open for 20 years (I've just run it for the past two), just like Massie's. It takes about 5 years to get a Black Belt at my school, just like Massie's. Everyone at my schools earns their belt with blood, sweat, and tears, just like Massie's. Massie has promoted "maybe a dozen to first dan", our school has promoted 148. We have almost as many 3rd Dans as he has 1st Dans.

    When last checked, there was less than a 1% chance that a student that signed up for an intro class at my school would achieve the ranking of Black Belt. At Massie's school is seems like it 1% of 1%. That just makes me wonder.

    I've always seen Shodan to be like a bachelor's degree in martial arts. The fact that Massie has so few Shodans, is like a college that has really poor graduation rate. Are the standards that tough, or do people just quit and go somewhere better? The fact he doesn't know the EXACT number of Shodan's he's promoted, especially when he can count them on his fingers and toes, makes me worry too.

    I currently have 15 people training for a Shodan test in January and they all kick ass. If they don't won't let them test.

    One last thing I'd like to point out that Shodan is the beginning, not then end. I didn't get my engineering degree, and then say "Alright that's it, I never have to do engineering again." That is not what I believe and that is not what my school is about. About 20% of our active students hold the ranking of Shodan or higher.
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 5:58pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    This is Michael Massie's reply

    I offer 6-month memberships now, with the first 30-days at no-obligation, in case the student (or their parents) decide our school is not right for them. I agree, 12 months is often too long a commitment for a new student to make. However, almost anyone can figure out in 30 days whether a school is right for them, so I think asking for a 5-month commitment is not too much to ask. Besides, I hate having wishy-washy students bounce in and out of class. Making them commit, even for a few months, takes care of that issue.
    I quit using billing companies for good, and don't believe in using collection agencies. By the way, you can use payment gateway services like Authorize.net, PayPal, and PaySimple to collect via check and credit card automatically at very low rates. Billing companies are a dying breed now, thanks to new technology, which kind of gives me a warm feeling inside when I think about it... Anyway, if someone doesn't want to train, they aren't going to pay - that's my philosophy. Ruining their credit isn't going to make them more honest, nor will it help my reputation in the community, either.

    Sincerely,

    Mike Massie
    This is literally what I do minus the pay pal.
  8. AeroChica is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2008 6:00pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, MMA and Kids Jiu-Jitsu Style: Boxing, Mom-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher
    When last checked, there was less than a 1% chance that a student that signed up for an intro class at my school would achieve the ranking of Black Belt. At Massie's school is seems like it 1% of 1%. That just makes me wonder.
    Remember, Massie's business model is 85% kids, ages 4 through 17. In his 200 student club, that's only 30 adults, and in his text he clearly indicates that his adult students are generally parents of child students. Getting a kid to a black belt rank is much less likely than getting an adult there, and even for adults it's not frequent, as you said.
  9. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 12:18am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AeroChick
    Remember, Massie's business model is 85% kids, ages 4 through 17. In his 200 student club, that's only 30 adults, and in his text he clearly indicates that his adult students are generally parents of child students. Getting a kid to a black belt rank is much less likely than getting an adult there, and even for adults it's not frequent, as you said.
    I'm 85% kids too. Only one out of the 15 testing for Shodan next January is an adult. And like I said, our kids keep training after Black Belt.

    I am a kid black belt myself. I'm #9 of 148. I started with the school when I was ten and been here ever since. I did a quick round down of the list and I counted 96 of the 148 that I know for a fact started as children and received their Jr. BB ranking before turning 16.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 12:37am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn, I'm only 50% kids. I got my first black belt at the age of 16. What does that make me?
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