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  1. #1

    Join Date
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    U.S. Army Combatives
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    New guy, right here

    Yep, another intro thread. I've spent some time reading some of the posts on these forums for the past week or so and have found them to be a great learning experience. I myself know little of most traditional martial arts and don't really have all that much training, but I'm trying to learn more so that I can find a good school and begin training. The training that I DO have has come from the Modern Army Combatives Program (MACP), but it's not like a go to class a few times a week thing; it's broken up into four "levels", each one differing lengths, and you have to get a schools slot just like Airborne or Ranger or anything else to go. Naturally, I'm having a hard time getting to Level 3, not to mention it's not continual training really, which I don't agree with. So yeah, don't expect to see a lot of posts from me as I will be spending most of my time reading what others post. Once I get some experience in a specific art, I'll post about it. On the same token, if anyone has any questions about MACP, feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my ability!

  2. #2
    TKDBot
    Guest
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome aboard, oaken boken! The Bullshido staff would welcome you personally, but the thing is they’re busy keeping the peace, so they’ve apointed me, a bot, to pat you on the back and assure you that in no way will you be harmed during your stay here at BS.net. Your views on the martial arts, your philosphy, maybe even your entire reason for being will be challenged, shattered, reorganized, melted down, and forged into something new and shiny, but we swear it will only hurt a little bit… at first.

  3. #3

    Join Date
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    Fire and Rockytop, Tennessee
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can you give us any idea as to what the MACP curriculum consists of? I've had Marines who came through our dojo complain that MCMAT was nowhere near comprehensive enough, but I don't know anything about MACP to compare.

  4. #4

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, absolutely. Firstly, I have to explain that many of the things the Army teaches are what is known as "Train the trainer" courses, meaning that if I learn it at school I can go back to my unit and teach soldiers there.

    The Level 1 course consists of one week of classes, 8 hours a day, 40 hours total. At this point, it's mostly BJJ basics such as the four dominate body positions, straight and bent arms bars, chokes, etc. You also learn clinch techniques and are forced to use them against an opponent using full contact boxing strikes. A good bit of the class is also reenforcement of grappling vs. striking arts through old UFC videos as well as more modern fight films of the instructors in their various MMA fights. In the end, you learn basic grappling and how to teach it to others.

    Level 2 is two weeks (80 hours) long, and is, once again, grappling. You learn different ways to pass the guard, sweet, takedowns, more clinch techniques, and some techniques for use against arms opponents (we do fight wars, after all:P). You learn a bunch of the history of Judo and BJJ, most of which I've forgotten in the four years since I took the course lol. Overall, lots of fun, good training.

    Level 3 I haven't gotten to do yet, but from what the instrutors told us it focuses on stand up techniques including Western Boxing, Muay Thai, and stick fighting. Apparently there's a lot of fighting multiple opponents, also, and it's a month long on top of that. I've heard it's a real ass kicker, and I hope to get a slot this spring sometime.

    Level 4 is mostly administrative for opening schools on different posts as this is a fairly recent rewriting of the old Army Combatives system, whatever it was called.

    Honestly, I really wish that they would mix stand up in with grappling earlier in the classes, at least then it would be more well rounded. Also, many of the techniques you learn in MACP aren't that useful in full kit (armor, gear, etc.), so I take it with a grain of salt.

  5. #5

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds like a good overview for someone with as heavy a training loadout as a soldier. I'm impressed they cover MA history. I think it makes sense that they train you in more grappling than striking at first because, well, in armed combat how often will you really be utilizing MT? You have a gun. If you're too close to use it I would think that the grappling techniques would be your best bet.

    EDIT:
    Firstly, I have to explain that many of the things the Army teaches are what is known as "Train the trainer" courses, meaning that if I learn it at school I can go back to my unit and teach soldiers there.
    My dojo does this as well, because higher ranked belts are expected to assist in instruction. I think most do.

  6. #6

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps, but like I said before, a lot of those techniques are a pain to execute with kit on. The way they put it is along the lines of, "The guy with the gun wins, so grapple the guy while your buddy gets a bead on him." Admittedly, two tours in Iraq and I've never gotten myself in a situation where it was needed, but I'm thankful to have it just in case.

  7. #7

    Join Date
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    Judo Sandbagger
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    Welcome Oaken Boken,

    Great handle. Wish I'd thought of that. In the traditional MA that you studied, did you do some Iaido - kendo or Kenjitsu work?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    U.S. Army Combatives
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the welcome and the compliment :) As for training, my brother in law did a lot of Kenjitsu when he was growing up (mind you, he's 11 years older than me and we met when I was 8), and he passed a bit of it along to me while I was coming up. I used to be ok, but I really suck after not practicing for the 5 years since I joined the Army, lol. I would really love to someday, though, there's just no schools here.

  9. #9
    DevilNuts's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
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    MCMAP, Israeli Krav Maga
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyduh
    Can you give us any idea as to what the MACP curriculum consists of? I've had Marines who came through our dojo complain that MCMAT was nowhere near comprehensive enough, but I don't know anything about MACP to compare.
    From what I understand it is very similar, but the progression is different.

    This is from my intro thread a few down:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=77669&page=2

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilNuts
    Well its a bit of a paradox, as MCMAP is not really taught the way it was intended to be taught. MCMAP is supposed to be sustained weekly at least, the same way any other system is sustained. However with a shortage of unit level instructors and operational time constraints MCMAP training is usually limited to a few 2 week courses a year, if that.

    I personally think MCMAP is a very good system if done right, but I have yet to see it done right so the end result is sort of half assed. Compared to Krav Maga, MCMAP is actually very similar. Both systems incorporate a system of fundamentals that can be built upon and improvised, both systems introduce many combative techniques and both utilize a combat fitness system to include conditioning drills and such.

    Right now though I would give a definite edge to KM over MCMAP, for the simple fact that it is more brutal and the training is more.... available.

    Plus... as a military man I get to learn some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that the regular civilian students do not. When the instructor learns some of the stuff they teach the IDF he will show the cops and veterans, like neck breaks and such.

  10. #10

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This explains my experience with disgruntled marines.

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