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  1. colonelpong2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 3:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kickboxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=Tonuzaba]Colonel, I'm afraid Hedge wasn't asking for help to gain weight as in to get fat. :new_termi

    QUOTE]

    Then he is doomed when winter comes! I am preparing to hibernate!
  2. Skillful is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 8:11am


     Style: Jiu Jitsu

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    Phrost beat me to finding it, but the link is below. Other pages on the site may be unsafe for work if copious F-bombs are considered offensive by your tyrannical wage-slave-holder employer who cares nothing for your civil rights, the Constitution of the United States, or justice in general

    Click below to sponsor a vegetarian (and maybe buy a t-shirt)
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor
  3. Tonuzaba is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 8:58am

    supporting member
     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash
    What? Where's the beef? This conversation just makes me itch for a big sausage to be inside me...
    How come an online conversation about foodstuff turns into p0rn every single time?!?

    CLICK & WATCH
    :
    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  4. Horus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 11:41am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    You are incorrect. These claims have been discussed at some length in this thread. If you have any questions after carefully reading the whole thread, feel free to ask.
    OK well no conclusion was found in that thread, it was basically an argument from both sides that was never resolved.
  5. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 12:40pm

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    OK well no conclusion was found in that thread, it was basically an argument from both sides that was never resolved.
    I'll be charitable and assume that you did, in fact, read the whole thing carefully. Do you have any questions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 1:15pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    OK well no conclusion was found in that thread, it was basically an argument from both sides that was never resolved.
    The fact that there wasn't a conclusion is not because there wasn't one in the strictest sense of the word, but because the parties were deep seated in their beliefs.

    I for one have a problem with these type of statements:

    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    Our bodies aren't even capable of properly digesting red meat
    What on earth do you mean "properly digesting"? Digestion is the breaking down of material for the absorption of nutrients in it. So to say that an organism X cannot properly digest food of type Y you have to explain precisely the following:

    1. the amount of nutrients (fats, carbs, proteins, etc) per unit of food (say per ounce of Y food),
    2. the rate of nutrient absorption (how much nutrients can organism X obtain from an ounce of food Y divided by the number of calories the body of organism X must burn to obtain those nutrients from that ounce of food Y)
    3. the effort (time, caloric expenditure) that organism X must go through to obtain food Y out of a selection of food types
    4. the nutritional/caloric needs of organism X

    Saying "properly digesting" without quantifying that is nothing more than rhetorical masturbation.

    There are innumerable benefits of a diet free of animal products, but fundamentally, it is an emotional/religious/ethical decision, not a natural/anatomical one. And this is why:

    We are not obligate carnivores like the cats, granted, but we are opportunistic carnivores and scavengers (like bears, canids, baboons, mandrills, chimps, pigs and even hippos and some species of deer.)

    For one thing, carnivory does not denote obligate carnivory only.

    Second, it is instinctual in our species.

    Third, it's is and has always been, widespread across all human cultures, past and present, and in all continents, and for all times. Carnivory not absent in all cultures, but only in some subcultures, and that's only a recent phenomenon (considering the antiquity of human civilization... or of humanity itself.)

    As a matter of fact, except, IIRC, for animals with specialized jaws such as ant eaters, all eutherian mammals engage in meat eating when they find it appropriate - in every eutherian mammal species with jaws capable of chewing, the female eats its own placenta after giving birth.

    Furthermore, it's been firmly proven in the paleontological record that the homo genus experienced an increase in brain size directly related to the species' ability to gather animal protein.

    H. abilis's use of stone flakes was primarily for extraction of bone marrow out of carcasses. That allowed them to scavenge animal protein that was out of reach to most predators. They became the ultimate scavengers, which resulted in a massive increase in brain size.

    H. ergaster became the first active cursorial predators in the Homo genus. They were no longer scavengers, but active predators with sophisticated hand axes. They became one of the top predatory species and remained so for over a million years.

    Neanderthals, our closest relatives had a larger brain size than ours while having a diet predominantly made out of meat (90% or so IIRC).

    With each succession in the Homo genus, you see an increment in brain size, tool sophistication and consumption of animal food. And there is a good reason for it: the brain, despite its small size in relation to the rest of the body, it consumes 1/3 of all calories ingested.

    Animal food provide the sufficient fats and proteins to sustain that growth. The Homo genus would have never experienced that growth had it remained a habitual nut-and-grub-and-egg eater. This is not just a remarkable correlation specific to the Homo genus. It is the rule, the fact, the very fucking nature of eutherian mammals.

    That a remarkably small number of subcultures have chosen to avoid animal foods in the last 2-3 thousand years is of no significance to our biological make-up. That's just a display of technological ability as they have developed the knowledge of obtaining sufficient nutrients out of an animal-free diet for ethical and religious reasons. You take that technological ability, and those societies will either revert back to opportunistic carnivory or go extint.

    Also, their numbers are insignificant when compared to the rest of the cultures (specially when considering the length of time in which Homo sapiens, or the Homo genus has existed.)

    Refusing to eat food of animal origin is a valid ethical or religious reason. There is no argument with that.

    It will never be, however, a decision justified by nature or biology. Attempting to morph this into a natural/biologically justified decision is just an emotional and illogical one (and a pretty unethical one depending on how you go about it.)
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 11/13/2008 1:20pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 1:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, if were to use the ability to properly digest a given food as indication of that food's suitability, then we would be forced to say "****, fiber is really fucking bad."

    We don't digest fiber at all. It goes right through the poop shooter. And I don't think anyone in their sane fucking mind would say that we should abstain from eating fiber because we cannot "properly" digest it.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Horus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 1:58pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho



    What on earth do you mean "properly digesting"?
    Our intestines are not made particuarly well for meat consumption, they are long and thus the meat goes bad before it has a chance to exit our bodies. This is not a problem for animals.

    I eat meat, I just don't think you're any worse off if you don't, as long as you get the right nutrients from other foods.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 2:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    Our intestines are not made particuarly well for meat consumption, they are long and thus the meat goes bad before it has a chance to exit our bodies. This is not a problem for animals.

    I eat meat, I just don't think you're any worse off if you don't, as long as you get the right nutrients from other foods.
    What the hell are we? Cantaloupes? Mushrooms?

    What about cows? They are animals, and I'm pretty sure they'll have a problem munching a Fillet Mignon.

    -- edit --

    Also, it takes 24 to 36 hours for food to leave your system (unless there is something wrong with you). Cooked meat takes longer than that to go bad not to mention that the digestive acids begin to break down the meat before putrefaction takes place (heck, digestive juices kills off most bacteria responsible for putrefaction.)

    Something has to be at a somewhat advanced level of putrefaction to put you at risk as your stomach would be able to break down even mildly rotten food (be it vegetable or animal matter.)

    Seriously man, where the hell did you get that meat would go bad before it leaves our intestines?
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 11/13/2008 2:08pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Horus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 2:07pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, I should have put "carnivorous animals".
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