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  1. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 2:19pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash
    Plus the Inuit suffer from pretty intense levels of heart disease.
    Why you gotta do that? I'm trying to stay out of the stupid part of this thread.

    Traditional Inuit diet cuts heart disease risk

    The traditional marine diet eaten by older Inuit seems to protect them from cardiovascular disease (CVD), but younger Inuit are shifting their diets away from these foods and may not be getting the benefits.
    Smoking main cause of heart disease among Alaskan Inuit

    "There are very high rates of smoking among the Alaska Eskimos that we've studied, and that high rate of smoking seems to be the most important factor in causing these fatty build-up or plaques or atherosclerosis in the neck arteries," Roman said Monday.

    Roman said a poor diet with more processed foods than traditional foods does not help matters, as traditional foods have many health benefits.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  2. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 2:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also note the use of YouTube - Lessons in Kiviak. The unique fermentation process manufactures many of the nutrients normally available only in plants.

    But don't lecture me about a mostly meat diet. I live in the fucking ghetto, where cheap meat is the only way a lot of people can obtain protein. There's a cardiac clinic nearby that's always full.


    "The only important elements in any society
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    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

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  3. A.D.D is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 2:23pm

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     Style: Fish Oil

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shat
    Also note the use of kiviak. The unique fermentation process manufactures many of the nutrients normally available only in plants.

    But don't lecture me about a mostly meat diet. I live in the fucking ghetto, where cheap meat is the only way a lot of people can obtain protein. There's a cardiac clinic nearby that's always full.
    I would like to try that. Fermented things are pretty disgusting/delicious.

    Kombucha?

    Cheap meat is the only bad part of their diets?
  4. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 2:31pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shat
    But don't lecture me about a mostly meat diet.
    In case this is somehow non-obvious, my reaction here is to the idea that humans are not natural meat eaters. It's possible, especially with modern supplementation, to eat a healthy vegetarian or even vegan diet. If one feels an ethical compulsion in that direction they should do it. My only gripe is with the attempt to justify that ethical decision with pseudoscience.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  5. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 2:55pm

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     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hahaha, Jack couldn't resist the urge... ;-) Just like me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    We can even eat each other! But choose not to, for some reason
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    And this relates to Tonu'z explanation that our capacity of eating anything is both a biological advantage and an evolutionary adaption because.....?
    Maybe subconsciously, but Horus was right - cannibalism is proof of yet another form of our opportunism with regards to food.

    And it's culture-related. And still exists, ocassionally - after all, technically, plant-eating animals are just recycled plant matter and humans - well, depending on the source, they might be recycled gourmand menus...

    Also, hypothetically, think of a situation when you, as a vegetarian or vegan end up Robinson-style on an island with zero consumable vegetation but loads of different animals. The clock of your "morals above survival" dilemma is clicking - because your body does have the opportunity of choice. You know you are able to eat the animals and live off them - because that's the way we are.

    BTW, I am a vegetarian in my soul - but I'm a weak selfish chickenshit so I eat my dead more-legged/feathered/scaled brothers too.

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  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 3:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Somehow I missed this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    Edit: actually, I just found one. On page 32 it says "Humans are not natural meat eaters and anyone who says otherwise is wrong". Not my words, the words of Professor Jones of the London University.
    Awesome. Now pray tell, on page 32 of what book, publication or journal??
    Oh for ****'s sake....
    For ****'s sake what? You claim it, you own it. That's how it is. You made a claim that the characteristics of our digestive systems indicate they are not suitable for meat eating. You were asked for credible citations. And we are still waiting.

    So you have 24 hours from the time of this post to either answer the question, admit you were lying and that you are incapable of providing credible citations, get the **** out or see any further post made by you in the PT forum being yanked into trollshido.

    I mean it. You want to talk **** without backing it up, go to another forum. This isn't your fucking playground nor Yahoo!Answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horus
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    -- the carnivorous origins of all species under the Homo genus?
    -- the relationship between increase in brain size in the Homo genus and increased carnivory?
    -- the fact that not being able to fully digest a food product is not indicative of the food being unsuitable or not needed by the organism in question?
    Citations please
    Certainly:


    Meat-eating & Human Evolution By Craig Britton Stanford (Ph.D. Assistant Professor, Department of Anthropology, University of Southern California) and Henry T. Bunn (Ph.D., University of California at Berkeley, 1982, Professor of Anthropology At UW-Madison since 1982)
    Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA; 1 edition (June 14, 2001)
    ISBN-10: 0195131398

    http://books.google.com/books?id=zB1...ummary_r&cad=0

    Milton, Katharine. 1999. A Hypothesis to Explain the Role of Meat-eating in Human Evolution, Evolutionary Anthropology 8(1):11-21

    The Hunting Apes: Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior. By Craig B. Stanford
    Amazon.com: The Hunting Apes: Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior: Craig B. Stanford: Books
    Publisher: Princeton University Press (February 5, 2001) ISBN-10: 0691088888


    After Eden: The Evolution of Human Domination. By Kirkpatrick Sale
    Amazon.com: After Eden: The Evolution of Human Domination: Kirkpatrick Sale: Books
    Publisher: Duke University Press (2006) ISBN-10: 0822339382

    Maps of Time: An Introduction to Big History. (California World History Library) . By David Christian and William McNeil (see page 162)
    Amazon.com: Maps of Time: An Introduction to Big History (California World History Library): David Christian, William H. McNeill: Books
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 3:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    con't: so much for us having a large intestine unsuitable for meat eating as well as doubting the carnivorous origins of the Homo genus.


    http://books.google.com/books?id=qBb...um=8&ct=result

    Before The Dawn, by Nicolas Wade,page 18

    From 3 to 2 million years ago, there was another long period of cool, dry climate in which Africa's forests shrank once more... The changing climate also put pressure on the australopithecines to develop new sources of food. Their diet, to judge by the nature of the microscopic wear on their teeth, was mostly vegetarian until about 2.5 million years ago.

    At this time the australopithecines, already adapted to living in open woodland, had evolved two quite different solutions to the problems of survival, according to the evidence of their fossil remains.

    One of the two species, known as the robust australopithecines, had developed larger cheek teeth, suitable for eating coarse leaves. The other had emerged with a much more original solution than chewing away at vegetation. It seemed to have decided to try its hand at carnivory. Meat-eating allowed for a smaller gut and furnished the extra nutrition that made possible a larger brain.

    This second species is known as Homo habilis. The title of Homo is one it does not clearly deserve since, far from being fully human, it retained its apelike body form and still used the trees as a refuge. But it possessed a striking new adaptation.

    The australopithecines had lived for 2.5 million years with brains scarcely bigger than a chimp's, but with habilis the brain at last started to expand. Chimpanzee's brains have a volume of 400 cubic centimeters, compared to the 1,400ccs of the average human brain.

    The australopithecine brain size ranged from 400cc to 500cc. The brain volume of the known habilis skulls ranges between 600cc and 800ccs.

    For a species to put resources into growing extra neurons is not as obvious an investment as it may seem. Brawn and teeth count a lot in the struggle for survival. Brain cells are greedy consumers of glucose and oxygen. "When costs are taken into account, the rarity of the human evolutionary phenomenon is at last understandable" writes Robert Foley.

    It's easier to explain how habilis sustained its larger brain than why it got it.

    Brains require a high quality diet to sustain them, such as meat but not vegetation can provide. Meat eating requires less tooth power than does chomping through mounds of vegetation and habilis indeed had smaller teeth.

    And habilis appears on the scene at the same time, 2.5 million years ago, as do the first stone tools. If, as it seems likely, habilis was the maker and user of these implements, that would explain its smaller teeth and how it managed to nourish a larger brain; it didn't need large teeth because it was using tools to hunt or scavenge meat, and the richer diet supplied the energy for its greater cognitive capacity.



    The one retarded thing about this argument is that human vegetarianism is not the equivalent of herbivory. A modern human can perfectly live in a vegetarian diet by virtue of preparing the vegetables via cooking, drying, mashing and through fermentation or pickling. Vegetables and grains can be combined in an intelligent manner to maximize the nutritional content of each serving. Vegetable matter can be fermented and processed with bacterial cultures to increase their protein and fat intakes and nutritional content.

    This is completely different from herbivory as exhibited by true herbivores, be it ruminants, iguanas or gorillas.

    Go try living off raw coarse leaves, grasses and roots, without the freedom to combine them in any way, raw, uncooked and/or unfermented, and tell me how it goes for you.

    Let me know how long until your gums peel off and you grind your teeth to dust.

    Let me know your supposedly large intestine handles that stuff without the bacteria and the chambers required for their processing.

    You might find out that taking a bite off a carcass is a lot easier to digest than that. Your **** may stink but you certainly won't perish.

    If you really fucking believe we are not made up for meat eating, then fucking go out and live like a herbivore, not as a vegetarian/vegan, but as a true herbivore, like a gorilla.

    If you truly believe this, then go do it, and let me know it works for you.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 3:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Vegetable matter can be fermented and processed with bacterial cultures to increase their protein and fat intakes and nutritional content.
    Nobody ever thinks about the way the bacteria suffer.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  9. Horus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 4:24pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Somehow I missed this.




    For ****'s sake what? You claim it, you own it. That's how it is. You made a claim that the characteristics of our digestive systems indicate they are not suitable for meat eating. You were asked for credible citations. And we are still waiting.
    For ****'s sake as in: It was clearly a joke. If I was going to make something up I would be a bit more convincing than "Oh I just found a book about that very subject by Professor Jones of the London University"
  10. EmetShamash is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2008 2:47am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonuzaba
    Also, hypothetically, think of a situation when you, as a vegetarian or vegan end up Robinson-style on an island with zero consumable vegetation but loads of different animals. The clock of your "morals above survival" dilemma is clicking - because your body does have the opportunity of choice. You know you are able to eat the animals and live off them - because that's the way we are.
    I would eat you and your whole family. Obviously. :bduh:

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