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  1. Snake Plissken is offline
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    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 6:35pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fried chicken, good Colonel.
    FRIED.
    Wouldn't want any of the ***** broiled chicken find its way onto your plate.

    COLONel. LOL
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 6:50pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash
    I have yet to hear a good explanation as to why humans have flattened nails, short canines, and can't eat raw meat other than a vegan diet.
    1. on flattened nails:

    These bad boys have flattened nails and yet...




    Also, boars and baboons don't have claws, and yet they hunt and kill.

    2. on short canines:

    Deers have been known to kill and eat chicks and voles. They don't have canines.

    No single species in the Homo genus has ever had large canines, and yet, there is no discussion that they evolved (we evolved) as carnivores and scavengers.

    3. Can't eat raw meat? How the hell did humans managed to eat meat before they learned to control fire? Why where they rasping carcasses with their hand axes then? To make souvenirs?

    It is not even needed to successfully digest the food you take. If it were, most herbivores barring the true ruminants would be considered evolutionary failures. For example, hares, rabbits, elephants and guinea pigs eat their own **** pellets because they can't fully digest the plant material they eat in one single pass.

    So big deal. We can't fully digest raw meat, and these animals can't fully digest plant material. Big deal, that's just nature. Animals come with solutions that are not perfect, but workable. Being able to eat meat and not fully digest it is no different from eating plant material and being forced to **** it and eat again, or like the ruminants, develop four chambers in the stomach to ferment not the grass, but the vomited grass which has to be re-chewed one more time.

    There is a serious lapse of logic here. Your question as of why humans eat meat despite having no claws or canines like, I dunno, smilodon, that was already answered in my long-ass post, but I'll summarize it and add a few more points:

    First, having large canines and claws are not a prerequisite to carnivory. They are an adaptation towards an increased degree of carnivory. An adaptation to opportunistic carnivory or scavenging is a precursor to developing canines and/or claws... and only if they are needed.

    Second, features evolved only when needed. We humans never needed to develop claws (like most other apes, including meat eating apes like chimps, and savannah primates like baboons and mandrills.) We didn't need claws or canines to eat bone marrow out of carcasses: we used hand axes and stone flakes.

    These were our claws and canines:



    With those tools around us for the last two million years since we first started gnawing on carcasses, we never had an evolutionary pressure to develop a body plan resembling a saber tooth cat.

    Third, large canines are not a necessity to eat meat, not even to kill prey. More often than not, canines evolve for defense. That they can be used for hunting is secondary (becoming an important component only in the most obligate carnivores of the order Carnivora).

    Extinct marsupial lions didn't have canines, but large incisors, a different adaptation. Our adaptation towards carnivory and scavenging was tool making.



    The need to have claws and large canines, or a perfect digestive system, those are some seriously flawed assumptions on what a carnivore is and how it became to be one. Heck, they are a complete misunderstanding on how evolution works.

    For anyone serious to know the history of carnivory in humans (independently of whether you eat meat or not), I suggest you get "Meat Eating & Human Evolution" by Stanford and Bunn.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 11/13/2008 6:53pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 6:54pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm closing this thread because it's getting ridiculous. Unfortunately we can never discuss how to use a vegetarian diet while being an athlete, so **** it. Thread close.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/13/2008 8:53pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I changed my mind, I'm re-opening the thread. When I get the chance (if I do), I will move some stuff to the skeptic's forum, while I will retain some other in the PT forums.

    After all, this is a PT forum for ****'s sake!!!
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. EmetShamash is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 10:41am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for actually answering what no one did on an earlier thread. I hesitate to actually get into this bullshit again because it is such a tired argument, but since I am actually talking to people that can answer with good stuff... anyway

    Your explanation is good and shows how much of a bad argument I have. I have some issues, and I still don't agree, but it is a good argument.

    Baboons and other primates are prime examples of how our diet is what it is. They eat a plant based diet supplemented with small amounts of animal tissue. I wish I knew more about them to make more of an argument here, but really their diets have so little meat in them I don't think that they can compare to the amount of animal products that people think is healthy to eat.

    Boars have hooves which are more seen in herbivores, yet they eat a small amount of scavenged crap. They're like pigs, they eat anything. Hardly seasoned hunters.

    Deer, which are ruminants like cows with the four chambered stomach and all, are very clearly herbivores that may kill for reasons other than food. Being a true ruminant and being able to digest meat tells you that other herbivores are quite capable of strong dietary flexibility.

    You present a good theory about why we have evolved this way. It is a bit of a stretch for me to think that we didn't evolve any carnivory insides or outsides because we make such awesome tools though. If you still think that we are so much like the other primates then why should we eat such a larger amount of animal stuffs?

    For those interested in the book mentioned earlier.
  6. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 11:10am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash
    ...If you still think that we are so much like the other primates then why should we eat such a larger amount of animal stuffs?...
    I support TEM's line of culling most of this thread into a separate (probably the millionth) discussion on meat eating or not somewhere else - the OP deserves to have an on-topic discussion here about gaining muscle weight on a vegetarian diet (and also practical advice on how to fight stink-in-gi...)

    So the following lines are for the future culled thread:

    1./ The amount of animal food consumed by humans depends on continent, country, culture, social sphere, income, etc...

    2./ what we eat and what percentual composition our food is, is not in direct relation to the evolution of Homo s. Sapiens. We're not evolved to only consume potato chips and beer, but we have the opportunity to do so.

    My Extatosoma (stick insect) would die of hunger, if I'd put a steak instead of bramble leaves into its plastic home. It has no choice of food (several plants the most, some only eat one kind).

    We, humans, CAN eat almost anything.

    That's the big evolutionary plus.

    CLICK & WATCH
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    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  7. Horus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 11:33am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We can even eat each other! But choose not to, for some reason
  8. BENXPX is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 11:42am


     Style: Hammer Fisting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tofu gives you moobs. </fact>
  9. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 12:01pm

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     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No it doesn't. I've been eating it my whole life. Come by my gym and I will allow you to examine my smooth yet elegant nipples.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  10. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2008 12:29pm


     Style: Rehab Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tempeh actually has flavor tho, and more balanced nutrition. Tofu is more like a nutritional supplement. It's good for you, and it plugs holes in your diet, but it doesn't bring much else to the party.

    Indonesian is one of the few meals I will almost always go veg.
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