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Thread: WMA grappling

  1. #11

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    So for a three hour session as the start, which material would you reccomend reviewing, aside from breakfalls? If we can get some takedown skill that is applicable for the weapons sparring right away that's great, but if there's something more foundational we should start with, suggest away.

  2. #12
    DdlR's Avatar
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    What sort of surface will you be training on?

  3. #13

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    We'll be using the padded room my FMA instructor uses for silat and dumog. Low ceilings may be an issue.

  4. #14

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    One thing is for sure. People respond with lighting speed on bullshido compared to the ARMA site.

  5. #15
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Assuming most of the participants are grappling noobs, for a 3-hour intro. I'd suggest:

    1) Warm-ups stressing basic ground movement (rolling, varieties of push-ups, spider-walks, etc.) and transitions from standing to the ground and back up again (burpees and so-on), stressing the basic points of breathing out from the diaphragm as you're going down towards the mat, using the legs to control descent, keeping in balance in lowering and raising.

    2) Following that, very basic side and back breakfall drills stressing proper position of the extended arm to absorb impact force, keeping the back of the head off the floor, etc.; first stationary (lying on the back) and then rolling back into the fall from sitting and kneeling positions.

    3) The big transition for complete noobs is moving from standing to lying down; try starting from as low a squat as they can manage while keeping their balance, then fully extending alternate legs at a 45 degree angle so that the side (muscle) of the leg slides along the mat, leading into the falls rehearsed in #2, still stressing breathing out from the diaphragm as they lay down into the falls.

    4) As soon as they're ready, get them to start from standing, sink down into the squat and repeat #3, first from a simple standing position and then from fighting stances.

    (N.B. that it's worth running drills 1-4 with weapons - daggers to begin, swords eventually - in hand, so the learn "where the damn weapon goes" - safely - as they fall.)

    5) Before introducing specific takedowns, IMO it's an excellent idea to get them doing partner drills in simply helping each other down to the mat and back up again. This sort of drill takes too long to write out but use your imagination; the key points are that the one doing the throw has to be in sufficient balance, and use his posture/skeletal structure to decelerate the fall, while the fall-guy supports himself by hanging on to the thrower. This sort of drill isn't often emphasized but IMO is extremely useful as an intermediary step between breakfalling and takedowns.

    6) Then you can finish with any number of specific takedowns from whatever treatises. I'd suggest starting off with the more obvious and technically simple trips and throws in an introductory class, saving the acrobatics for the future.

    If you have time you might also let them do some basic ground grappling, to a shoulder pin rather than to submission, just for fun. Again, plenty of time for more serious competitive grappling once they've mastered these basics.

  6. #16
    theotherserge's Avatar
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    also, you can look for vids of Icelandic Wrestling, Belt Wrestling, Swiss Wrestling etc.

    Alot of these styles preserve rule sets that go back to Medieval era and are a good indication of what skills they were concerned with developing.

  7. #17
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    also, you can look for vids of Icelandic Wrestling, Belt Wrestling, Swiss Wrestling etc.

    Alot of these styles preserve rule sets that go back to Medieval era and are a good indication of what skills they were concerned with developing.
    Yes, up to a point. Icelandic glima and the other forms of European belt wrestling definitely have long folk-histories and the mechanics of some of their techniques are close to those of Medieval German unarmed combat, but kampfringen ("combat wrestling") as detailed in the old German fighting treatises was actually closer to jujitsu. Lots of throws from jointlocks, etc. that are not part of the more strictly recreational Euro wrestling styles:

    http://www.hema.freehomepage.com/_bo..._tafel_220.gif
    http://www.hema.freehomepage.com/tafel_213.gif

    That said, there is at least one ancient treatise (Fabian von Auerswald's of the late 1400s) that does focus on sport grappling, albeit still using a variety of grips (collar-and-elbow, backhold, etc.) Recreational belt-hold wrestling seems to be historically associated more with rural festivals than with urban/self defense training, which is not to say that it wouldn't be good training for actual fighting under some conditions. You never want to let a glima expert grab you by the belt.

  8. #18
    Hesperus's Avatar
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    REMOTE LINKING FORBIDDEN, those pictures say.

    Say everyone, are there any particular "hotspots" for WMA?

  9. #19
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus
    REMOTE LINKING FORBIDDEN, those pictures say.
    Really? They're working for me. Will see what I can do ...

    Say everyone, are there any particular "hotspots" for WMA?
    You mean online or in the real world?

  10. #20
    DdlR's Avatar
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    OK, forget the still pictures, here's a clip of some typical kampfringen in action:

    YouTube - Medieval Wrestling

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