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  1. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 8:41pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    WMA grappling

    Of the rennaisance manuals, which ones contain the largest grappling sections(or most essential). I''ll be following up on the ARMA forums too, but I'd like the advice of those of you with a crosstraining background.

    My ARMA group wants to cover some ringen, and i'm trying to figure out what the best starting point would be.
  2. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 9:37pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Of the German sources I'd suggest von Danzig, all of Talhoffer's editions (for the pictures; he doesn't offer a whole lot of written instruction,) Paulus Kal, Nicholaes Petter if you want to extend to the late 1600s ... it would almost be easier to list the treatises that don't include extensive instructions on unarmed combat.
  3. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 11:27am


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a big fan of the codex, but I found that (in order to train the plays effectively) I first had to spend quite a bit of time drilling basic clinch work with my group (as I'm the only one with a grappling background). If your group has experienced grapplers then just train the plays from the books but if you have people with no grappling experience then you probably want to cover breakfalls, Shoot & Sprawl, pummelling & clinch surfing to start with. After all, the manuals were written for an audience who had been wrestling since childhood. A basic understanding of general principles is assumed by the authors.

    EDIT: Western Martial Arts Forum please.
    Last edited by SBG-ape; 11/03/2008 11:38am at .
  4. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 11:43am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For all 5 of us?
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 11:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape

    EDIT: Western Martial Arts Forum please.
    Yeah, I keep trying ...
  6. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 11:46am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape

    EDIT: Western Martial Arts Forum please.
    Found it.

    http://www.thearma.org/forum/index.php
  7. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 11:49am


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For all 5 of us?
    YES. I think more WMA people would post here, more non-WMA people would become aware of WMA & begin asking questions & the WMA people here would start to post more. Also, it would make me feel special, warm & fuzzy inside. I'm pretty sure that's the point of all martial arts study; isn't it?

    Anyway: there's a reason you posted here as well as the ARMA forum. You get a different perspective when you compare your art across styles. I'm always interested to look at ARMA curriculum compared to MMA training & see what each side thinks of the other.
    Last edited by SBG-ape; 11/03/2008 11:52am at .
  8. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 12:04pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The last push for a WMA-based BSD forum was a couple of months ago, when the proposal was to have a combined Western and Russian styles forum. There was actually pretty strong support for the idea at the time.
  9. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 12:13pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For a more informative post- I have maybe white-belt level sub skills from the bottom, and some decent knowledge of clinchwork from the filipino grappling i've done, and i am, as far as I can tell, far and away the best grappler in the group. I'm hoping to recruit a few wrestlers/bjj guys to help retard-proof our efforts at exploration by supervising us while we do a ringen session.
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 12:28pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Along those lines, I've been surprised by how little kampfringen (especially the basics of breakfalling, standing grappling etc.) is emphasized by many HEMA groups in the US. When you consider that it was obviously a huge aspect of historical dagger and longsword combat as well as strictly unarmed, you'd think that it would get more attention even from "weapon-centric" groups, including more integration into sparring (within the boundaries of reasonable safety).

    There have been some clinics in the basics of grappling at HEMA/WMA conferences over the past few years; more of the same is required.
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