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  1. Masta_Chai is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 10:12am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Let's discuss the questionable origins of sayoc kali and their pact with PTK

    To this day I am still extremely confused about this Sayoc Kali stuff. One of the more interesting theories I found on Urban Dictionary of all places: http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m=sayoc%20kali Made up by the Sayocs to cash in on the interest in FMA. This system is interesting only to those who are new to FMA and are clueless about the history of the Sayocs. Claims to be "all blade all the time"but it's more like "all money all the time". Expensive DVDs that teach "knife fighting" to teenagers and those who want to pretend their badasses LOL. Claims to be effective but is actually based on confusing and complicated templates that will naturally be forgotten in the heat of a real knife fight. It's not really FMA, because its not from the Philippines. It was made up in the Sayoc's Tae Kwon Do club in the US. Of course the internet sayoc spammer sunhelmet posted the "official" version Negative articles, misconceptions and rumors about Sayoc Kali were spread out by anonymous individuals in various sites. Often behind the scenes where there is no Sayoc rep to correct the inaccuracies. Here are the facts, Tuhon Chris Sayoc trained in PTK, a mere three years and has since trained with other masters of FMAs like Cacoy Canete of Doce Pares who he regards as the FMA instructor who influenced him the most. Through the next 30 years, the Sayocs have evolved their training with first hand experience working in Security and the law enforcement field. It is quite an attestment to Tuhon Chris Sayoc's skill level that even today people still lay claim to his achievements many years later. Most importantly, Tuhon Sayoc has learned from the past that martial arts goes beyond the memorization of drills, he considers all the life lessons passed down through every generation of his family as essential components of Sayoc Kali. The mere repetitions of movements and patterns are but a small part of Sayoc Kali's popularity. Sayoc Kali is about the ancient principles of the preservation of the tribe. Sayoc Kali treats its members with utmost respect and as part of a strong united family. It is an ever growing organization with a solid ranking system. All the top instructors have been with Sayoc Kali for more than ten years, some twenty or more. It is regarded by many as a highly evolved Filipino Martial Art. Now Sayoc Kali has become the leading trainer for US military knife combatives. On "All Blade, All the Time": SAYOC - SILAK (formerly the Sayoc Fighting System) is the complete curriculum including stick, whip, empty hand, etc. for those who may have confused the two. That has always been stated openly. There's even two separate websites. "All blade..." is not a literal saying. It is a mental note that at ANY point in time of an attack a blade can be introduced by you or the attacker. So many drills or techniques get complacent and the teaching gets watered down when it does not address this crucial factor. On price: People pay thousands of dollars to go to the dentist, but believe that instruction that could mean life or death is overpriced. That says a lot about what they think their own knowledge, skill level and most importantly their life or their loved one's lives are worth. Then there is also this article claiming PTK got its knifework from Sayoc Kali Was Sayoc Chris really a taekwondo expert? How come he's such a giant lardo now? Discuss
  2. Lebell is offline
    Lebell's Avatar

    Just waiting for the paperboy.

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 10:13am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what is difficult about using punctuations and use alineas in order to come up with a readable post that makes sense?

    discuss.
  3. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 11:05am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This belongs in the FMA forum.

    Masta Chai, in light of your posting history, I recommend you cease posting IMMEDIATELY & take your time you refamiliarize yourself with the Bullshido site, its rules, forums, etc. READ ALL APPROPRIATE STICKIES.

    Do you understand?
  4. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 11:16am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A few things

    I've tried to engage in the sayoc/pekiti conversation several times, and found it very disheartening from both sides. I don't know where you're trying to go here, or why you haven't used the search function on any FMA forum in the known goddamn world.

    Also, I don't know why it matters who learned what from where. What matters is the efficacy of the program they are teaching right now. If you have a criticism of sayoc methodolgy, i'm sure many would like to discuss that. If you aren't a close friend of any of the involved families here, then this is at most a slightly interesting piece of history and that's it.

    Even if techniques are "stolen" from someone, why would that matter? If someone else's techniques are effective, it would seem pretty stupid to not steal them. Discussing intellectual property with regards to physical movements seems dumb. When I work out with a sayoc practicioner, if i see something effective, i plan to steal it at my first oppurtunity.
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 11:31am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The question is not one of the validity of PTK or Sayoc.

    It's whether Masta Chai is a an idiot...or a troll?
  6. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 11:35am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am excessively charitable. He's at least dumb enough to not understand the idea of formatting text.

    Dear lord, I just read his other 5 posts.
  7. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 11:37am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Masta_Chai
    To this day I am still extremely confused about this Sayoc Kali stuff. One of the more interesting theories I found on Urban Dictionary of all places: http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m=sayoc%20kali Made up by the Sayocs to cash in on the interest in FMA. This system is interesting only to those who are new to FMA and are clueless about the history of the Sayocs. Claims to be "all blade all the time"but it's more like "all money all the time". Expensive DVDs that teach "knife fighting" to teenagers and those who want to pretend their badasses LOL. Claims to be effective but is actually based on confusing and complicated templates that will naturally be forgotten in the heat of a real knife fight.

    It's not really FMA, because its not from the Philippines. It was made up in the Sayoc's Tae Kwon Do club in the US.
    Of course the internet sayoc spammer sunhelmet posted the "official" version Negative articles, misconceptions and rumors about Sayoc Kali were spread out by anonymous individuals in various sites. Often behind the scenes where there is no Sayoc rep to correct the inaccuracies.

    Here are the facts, Tuhon Chris Sayoc trained in PTK, a mere three years and has since trained with other masters of FMAs like Cacoy Canete of Doce Pares who he regards as the FMA instructor who influenced him the most. Through the next 30 years, the Sayocs have evolved their training with first hand experience working in Security and the law enforcement field. It is quite an attestment to Tuhon Chris Sayoc's skill level that even today people still lay claim to his achievements many years later. Most importantly, Tuhon Sayoc has learned from the past that martial arts goes beyond the memorization of drills, he considers all the life lessons passed down through every generation of his family as essential components of Sayoc Kali. The mere repetitions of movements and patterns are but a small part of Sayoc Kali's popularity.


    Sayoc Kali is about the ancient principles of the preservation of the tribe. Sayoc Kali treats its members with utmost respect and as part of a strong united family. It is an ever growing organization with a solid ranking system. All the top instructors have been with Sayoc Kali for more than ten years, some twenty or more. It is regarded by many as a highly evolved Filipino Martial Art. Now Sayoc Kali has become the leading trainer for US military knife combatives.


    On "All Blade, All the Time": SAYOC - SILAK (formerly the Sayoc Fighting System) is the complete curriculum including stick, whip, empty hand, etc. for those who may have confused the two. That has always been stated openly. There's even two separate websites. "All blade..." is not a literal saying. It is a mental note that at ANY point in time of an attack a blade can be introduced by you or the attacker. So many drills or techniques get complacent and the teaching gets watered down when it does not address this crucial factor. On price: People pay thousands of dollars to go to the dentist, but believe that instruction that could mean life or death is overpriced. That says a lot about what they think their own knowledge, skill level and most importantly their life or their loved one's lives are worth.
    Then there is also this article claiming PTK got its knifework from Sayoc Kali Was Sayoc Chris really a taekwondo expert? How come he's such a giant lardo now? Discuss
    Why should we discuss. How about you post something without Bias?
  8. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 12:58pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The subject is FMA, but the quality is Trollshido.
  9. Masta_Chai is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 7:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical
    The subject is FMA, but the quality is Trollshido.
    How about you post something without Bias?
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 7:50pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Masta_Chai
    How about you post something without Bias?
    How about you shut the **** up?
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