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  1. Meex is offline
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    Loving Father

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2008 7:40pm

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     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tubemode12
    @Meex

    Wow, that's interesting, thank you very much for the info.

    Thanks for sharing that, if you don't mind, you think you could ask him why the Guros suddenly started fleeing for Cali? It would make my day to know.

    Good to know, we've got a house in Cali, maybe one day I'll try it out.

    We Filipinos prefer California, a lot of minorities there, culture ain't so distorted, and it isn't so high-class like New York.

    Just depresses me though, it's like the Philippines has been drained of it's heritage. :(
    He's passed on. But, as far as I remember, he said they (the masters)
    were fleeing government persecution, or something like that. I don't
    know enough about it, just remember some of what was related to me.

    btw - my guro was three 'generations' (kali 'classes') before D. Inosanto.
    There were some of the "who's-who" in ma circles that he has pics
    of as very young men, and after Inosanto. . .Eric Lee, James Lew, etc.


    `~/



    .
  2. tim_stl is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 11:00am


     Style: fma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meex
    Kali is the Filipino ancestral term for the group of arts
    developed there.
    for those unfamiliar with the 'kali' debate, i would like to point out that this claim is unfounded. in actuality, we do not know what the inhabitants of the pre-hispanic philippines called their arts, but given the amount of variation shown even today, it is incredibly unlikely they all used the same term.



    tim
  3. escrimador6 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 12:16pm


     Style: FMA / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tim_stl
    for those unfamiliar with the 'kali' debate, i would like to point out that this claim is unfounded. in actuality, we do not know what the inhabitants of the pre-hispanic philippines called their arts, but given the amount of variation shown even today, it is incredibly unlikely they all used the same term.
    tim
    Do we really need to rehash this again? I'll save everybody some time. The 'Kali' side will claim that Kali is an ancient word and the mother art of all FMAs and downplay the influence of the Spanish. The 'Non-Kali' side will point out that there is no reference of the world Kali until the mid 50s and that the word never existed prior to then and over emphasize the influence of the Spanish on FMAs. This will spark a pointless debate that will go in circles until everyone gives up and leaves with the same beliefs that they came into it with, and we all die a little inside.
    Last edited by escrimador6; 11/03/2008 12:23pm at .
  4. tim_stl is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 12:22pm


     Style: fma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by escrimador6
    Do we really need to rehash this for again? I'll save every body some time. The 'Kali' side will claim that Kali is an ancient word and the mother art of all FMAs and downplay the influence of the Spanish. The 'Non-Kali' side will point out that there is no reference of the world Kali until the mid 50s and that the word never existed prior to then and over emphasize the influence of the Spanish on FMAs. There will then be a long debate where both sides do there best to prove their point and in the end every one will walk away still believing that their view is right, having wasted a lot of time and we all die a little inside.
    i wasn't attempting to rehash it, i was just presenting the counter to the assertion. i have no interest in arguing it again. my post was to educate the uninitiated, not convert any believers.



    tim
  5. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2008 3:10am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tubemode12
    Thanks for sharing that, if you don't mind, you think you could ask him why the Guros suddenly started fleeing for Cali? It would make my day to know.
    I don't know about all the guros' but Leo Giron talks about Filipinos fighting with the US against the Japanese during World War 2 (during the US occupation of the Philippines). There's some crazy stories from those times- Giron relates a story of fighting a Japanese soldier armed with a katana (Giron cut the man's tricep in half with a bolo). After the war, he was able to move to the states. I might want to leave too after seeing the war. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprized if the war had to do with others leaving as well. Why California? Not quite sure, but a filipina friend of mine said it was the most similar to the PI except for Hawaii.
  6. escrimador6 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/04/2008 11:49am


     Style: FMA / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Giron came to the States in the late 20's, during an influx of Filipinos into Hawaii and mainland America.

    I would imagine that most ended up in California and Hawaii do to the fact that when traveling to America from the Philippines, those are the first places you would land.
    Last edited by escrimador6; 11/04/2008 2:54pm at .
  7. tubemode12 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2008 9:19am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Topic

    It's understandable why they started leaving during the 60's or 70's.

    The Philippines was held in an iron grip by a tyrant of a president, Ferdinand Marcos.

    The son of a bitch declared Martial Law, stole as much as he could and put it in Swiss Bank accounts, heck, he even took part of my family's land and kept it for himself.

    Did I mention that he's currenly frozen solid in a 24 hour guarded crypt?

    Everyone was under his rule, I'd understand as to why the Guros might have wanted to leave, money was tight back then, everyone caught protesting was "silenced".



    @Lebell

    I'm in Mindanao dude, Davao City to be exact.

    You don't like stickfighting? Issokay, we respect that.

    But it's not about eskrima, issabout the Womens.

    THE WOMENS.

    @Kali Debate

    It is true that we've been using swords, krises, bolos, spears and even our hands as weapons even before the dawn of Spanish rule.

    Heck, we killed Magellan with the afermentioned weapons.

    But let's think of it this way, If you see two people fist fighting in the streets, can you call this boxing?

    My opinion on the subject and basing on my knowledge of Philippine history is that, yes, it is true, we technically have been using kali for centuries, but we didn't call it kali back then, to us, it was just fighting.

    Then the FMA pioneers came and decided to modify the arts to make it more effective and easier to teach.

    BTW, Arnis already existed in the 1800's, Jose Rizal, our National Hero was an Arnisador as well as many other Katipuneros (Freedom Fighters)
    Last edited by tubemode12; 11/05/2008 9:22am at .
  8. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2008 9:39am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's about womenz?

    Ok, I am once again interested in the conversation.
  9. tubemode12 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2008 9:46am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^

    What would you like to know...? *snicker*

    Is this stuff allowed in the forums? It's quite explicit.

    There's this bar in town filled with model like womenz, decent womenz, not too much money, so they turn to other men with money to get through life.

    They wear these skimpy shorts and... what is that thing called again.

    The men here freak me out, the rich politicians with money hound over these women.

    THIS MY GOOD FRIENDS, IS WHERE ALL THE MAGIC HAPPENS.

    DOWN TO THE PICK-UP, TO THE MEETING, TO THE F*CKING.

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2009/...fabe0171_o.jpg

    Don't be fooled by the view, the building is tall as ****, and it looks even more magical at night.
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2008 9:55am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm coming to visit you.
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