From combat to dueling, how modern martial arts evolved?

**AAAhmed46** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 4:13pm

YouTube - Renaissance Martial Arts - the Web Documentary: Part 10of10

I found this very interesting, loved the history behind it all, and why some styles are the way they are.

Anyway, discuss.

EDIT: more or less, does anyone else see the same pattern with unarmed combat?

**danno** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 5:45pm

when you stop testing your style by sparring and fighting and start to adjust your techniques until they just look right, you're fucked. and when you start making up new techniques altogether and decide that they'd work because it looks like they would, you end up with something like aikido.

i also think it would be difficult to recreate good sword fighting to any great degree because you're omitting too many variables with the sparring. i'm sure that if you used real swords and had people pretty much fight to the death, a lot of new things would pop up that you couldn't have anticipated by sparring with padded sticks and so on.

**Scott Larson** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 5:48pm

haven't got to watch it all yet, but starting at 1:10, those dudes got fucked up.

**TheRuss** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 5:49pm

Well, I haven't had a chance to use one yet, but I'd imagine that shock knives are a pretty good substitute for actual knives. I'd imagine you'd have to modify the design to allow for blade-on-blade contact with them, but still, it's probably a step in the right direction.

**danno** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 6:01pm

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Well, I haven't had a chance to use one yet, but I'd imagine that shock knives are a pretty good substitute for actual knives. I'd imagine you'd have to modify the design to allow for blade-on-blade contact with them, but still, it's probably a step in the right direction.

but are you learning the most effective way to cut someone? would it just draw blood or kill them?

it's like boxing without ever punching hard enough to drop someone. increasing the level of contact changes things quite a bit. in this way, i think that live blades would be similar.

that's why i don't think that we will be ever be able to develop armed combat (excluding guns, as in modern times there have been plenty of wars to find out how to use them properly) to the level that we have developed unarmed combat.

unless we bring back the gladiator stuff.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 8:12pm

Ta-daaa -

YouTube - Ars Dimicandi - i Gladiatori

**TheRuss** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 9:49pm

Originally Posted by danno

but are you learning the most effective way to cut someone? would it just draw blood or kill them?

it's like boxing without ever punching hard enough to drop someone. increasing the level of contact changes things quite a bit. in this way, i think that live blades would be similar

Technology's a wonderful thing. Blades that are pressure-sensitive (more pressure = harder shock) are possible.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/29/2008 11:46pm

A shock knife in longsword form would be the most awesome thing ever invented.

**Hertzyscowicz** · Posted On: 10/30/2008 3:12am

There is a similar trend visible in Martial arts in general, but fortunately we have the internet now, and anyone can look up just how big a pile of bullshit their Wang too low grand master's last lecture was.

**Moenstah** · Posted On: 10/30/2008 3:58am

It's more like a wave thing. A sport/art starts, is quite rough and harsh, then the bureaucrats step in: ever more rules, emphasis on rank and the organisation becomes a purpose in itself. Then a group breaks off, and forms its new thing, which will face the same fate.

I don't think that it's a bad thing, it's just a sign of the vigour of the bourgeois values and culture. 'fighting' and 'civilisation' are inherently at odds with eachother.

PS: damned shame that I can't join one of those groups, they're too far away in my country :'(