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  1. spamurai13 is offline

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    Feb 2008
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 4:31pm


     Style: Southern Kung Fu, BJJ, AK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Has anyone incorporated this in their training

    i was reading emptyflower.net and I read this article from Bill McGrath. What do you folks think about these kinds of drills. I bring this question here because if any of you have trained this way, I was curious to hear about how your kali/escrima skills adapt to this situation.

    Warning: the article is a bit lengthy

    SURVIVAL DRILLS-BEYOND SPARRING
    By Tuhon Bill McGrath
    From the spring 2002 Pekiti-Tirsia International newsletter.
    copyright 2002 William McGrath



    Basic symmetrical sparring, with two evenly matched opponents, is a great way to introduce students to the skills they need for combat. They can stay there their whole martial arts careers if all they are going to fight in are tournaments. Things are different in a real fight though. Success is defined not by scoring more points, or even knocking your opponent out, but by your coming out of the altercation in as close to the same physical condition as you went into it as possible.
    Unless you are a law enforcement officer, on the street your mind should be focused on the word "Escape" rather than on "Win." One concept you must understand is that real street attacks are rarely as symmetrical as a regular sparring match.
    Seldom on the street are you attacked by someone your size, your age and armed with the exact same weapon as you are carrying. Usually street attacks are more asymmetrical. The opponent (or opponents) is larger or stronger, has superior numbers or is better armed than the person he is attacking. If they didn't think the odds were in their favor, they wouldn't attack you in the first place. Therefore, to prepare for the real world we need to make our sparring reflect this asymmetrical aspect. The following drills should help.
    Note: Keep each "round" of fighting to 5 to 10 seconds since it is in this timeframe that most real fights are won or lost. Students should fight no more than four rounds in a row both as a safety factor and to add realism, since most real fights are of short duration. I like these drills for advanced students who have already gotten their basics down.
    GRAB BAG SPARRING. Take a variety of practice weapons and paint numbers on them. Have practice versions of knives, sticks, pipes (I wrap a rattan stick with gray tape to signify a heavy pipe) a machete' (here I use red tape), a rolled up newspaper, a length of rope with a rubber ball at the end to signify a belt with a heavy buckle, a leather jacket, etc. Let's say you come up with 10 different weapons. Line these up on the floor. Now take 11 slips of paper and write a number (1 to 11) on each slip. Put the slips in a hat and let the students pick a number. Whatever they come up with, that is what they will fight with. As you probably have already guessed, if they draw an 11, they fight without a weapon. Stage 2 is to let the students pick two slips of paper each and fight with what ever comes out of the hat in doble' or espada y daga style. Note: If you see a great disparity of force (i.e. large student with a "machete" vs. small student with a "knife") try to even things out by going two on one and
    giving the smaller student a partner.
    STREET WALK 1. Two opponents start to walk towards each other from opposite sides of the school on opposing parallel lines (like you would when two people walk down the street towards each other). Teacher gives the "go" signal to fight at any time, either approaching or when the students have passed each other.
    STREET WALK 2. One student plays bad guy and chooses distance to attack (or whether to attack at all).
    STREET WALK 3. Three or more "bad guys" walk towards the "good guy". Only one of the bad guys will attack, but when and who is unknown to the good guy.
    STREET WALK 4. Similar to 3 except 1, 2 or 3 students can attack. Good guy student's job is to escape through a door or to a "safe" zone marked on floor. He can't attack someone unless they first attack him.
    BODYGUARD1. You and a "non-combatant" (such as a child or elderly person), are attacked and you must get the non-combatant to safety. What are the differences in strategy when protecting an adult who can run vs. protecting a young child who cannot?
    BODYGUARD 2. Full combatant partnered with semi-combatant. My Penchak instructor called this "husband and wife training." In a standoff; wife can guide husband backwards towards safety while he keep an eye on the bad guys. During an altercation, wife watches husband's back and gets in a hit when needed.
    HOME INVASION 1. Put a line of tape on the floor to make a "doorway". Student 1 stands before the door. Student 2 faces him. It is student 2's job to get through the door and it is student l's job to prevent him. (I tell student 1 to think that his family is behind the door and student 2 is a home invader. Conversely, I tell student 2 that student 1 is an invader who has broke into his home and that a second invader is in the room with his wife and kids. Therefore each student in his own mind is playing the "good guy".)
    HOME INVASION 2. This is best done in a real doorway, (choose one without glass in it or near it). Student is answering his front door. Three opponents are outside of the home. When door opens bad guys try to push their way in. Good guy defends with hands, knife, stick, machete, handgun or long gun. Space and time limitations come into play (how fast can they enter vs. how fast can you put them all down) as well as the use of the door itself as a shield or a weapon.
    BASIC PRACTICE: You can work principals you will need for combat into your everyday practice.
    THREE PARTNERS 1: When partnering up to practice a technique, partner up by threes instead of by twos. Student 1 does the technique one time on student 2 then one time on student 3. Then student 2 becomes the "good guy" and does the technique on student 1 then student 3. Next student 3 becomes the good guy and practices on students 2 and 1. Practicing this way helps prevent the tunnel vision that can lead you to focus too much on opponent 1 while opponent 2 is stabbing you in the back.
    THREE PARTNERS 2. LikeTP1 except on the instructor's signal, one student from each group will leave and go to another group.
    THE CATERPILLAR. Students form two lines. The students in Line 1 are the attackers and they hold their positions during the drill. Line 2 are the defenders and they will move during the drill. The signal is given and each student in Line 1 attacks the student in front of him in Line 2. Students in Line 2 defend using a specific technique. On a signal from the instructor, each student in Line 2 movesone place to his right coming before a new opponent. The student
    at the end of Line 2 runs off the line and circles to the beginning of the line. Once Line 2 has made a complete circuit, the lines change tasks and Line 2 becomes the attackers and Line 1 the defenders. Keep this drill simple at first. Use one specific attack and one specific counter until everyone has had a chance to both attack and defend. Then you can compare different defenses. Have a round of "Attack 1 vs. Defense 1" then a round of "Attack 1 vs. Defense 2". This drill helps the students become familiar with working with different body types and skill levels. It also helps them analyze the technique and understand its strengths and weaknesses (i.e. "Defense 1" might be better against a left jab from an opponent who is taller than you, but "Defense 2" might be better against a left jab if the opponent is shorter than you).
  2. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

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    Feb 2006
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    austin, tx
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 10:49pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They're force-on-force resistant drills used to supplement regular sparring, since he's trying to foster a self-defense skilset. Seems fine to me.
  3. Ryno is offline

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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2008 6:35pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We do a few now and then. Specifically regarding defense against knife, I encourage people to run away if at all possible. First we teach them basics like how to cover their vitals, get two on ones, distract with head shots, etc. After drilling this, then we teach them to use what they just learned not to try to "win" a fight, but rather to use it as a tool to help them escape.

    Then we put them in a corner, and sick someone on them who has a training knife and some headgear. It's the defenders job to survive. Nine times out of ten, escape is the best option. Against an experienced attacker, the odds are still against you winning if you try to fight your opponent. But making a survivable escape is actually pretty likely.

    Mixed weapon sparring is fun. Bull-in-the-ring is fun too, mixed weapons, multiple attackers, or not.
  4. antman is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2008 1:25am


     Style: Silat, New to Hsing- Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I used to with my old escrima teacher using, blunt knifes, sticks, looking for escape routes and not trying to get hit mostly, also in small quarters.
    "Its not important to be strong, its just important not to be weak."
  5. Partisan is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2008 1:29pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Escrima, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some of these scenarios will help you not spaz out under 'certain' circumstances. Wouldn't mind getting with a group and trying out some of these exercises.
  6. Meex is offline
    Meex's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2008 2:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    RBSD comes to mind. . .

    Not necessarily a bad thing, but, it can go too far in
    making you think you are preparing for the "street."

    What works well for those I've trained, was to bring
    together different groups of people (kali, karate, judo,
    kung fu, kaju, etc.) and have open sparring between
    them.

    Because most of my students are at an advanced level
    (kempo/kaju green or better), we use little to no safety
    gear, other than non-sharpened, steel knives.

    Your protection is your skillset, and a gracious opponent.

    This allows one to learn, without the comfort of training
    against classmates, friends, or teachers. We often use
    my students as target practice, for technique corrections
    or lessons during such sparring days.

    We used to do this once a month, but, that. too got a
    bit predictable, and comfortale for some.

    Want to see some serious action? Pit a good staff person
    against a oood knife person., or, a good single stick guy,
    against a champion judo player. . .great stuff.

    I feel this type of fun exercise is exciting, and builds more
    than confidence on the street. . .it builds character.

    We never let anyone go home a winner. . .even the instructors
    get a bull-ring, or mob environment. . .just to remind everyone
    that the purpose of these exercises is to escape! (and, be safe)


    `~/

    btw -
    A spar-b-cue afterward with a few brewskis is always a good thing!



    .
    Last edited by Meex; 12/15/2008 2:32pm at .

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