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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 11:51pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    First of all, as I've said earlier..I'm NOT offended. No one can tell me my time was wasted and my belt is worthless, because I havent earned rank...I'm new.

    And as I've told "It is Fake"...I HAVE been to other areas of the site, including the TMA forums -- both the TKD/Korean and the Japanese mostly. But I'm glad you brought this up...While, yes, there are some decent threads, it reminded me of one of the first threads I read in the TKD/korean forum when I started browsing around bullshido.net:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=72317&page=1

    Now, I cant see the video this guy linked b/c its no longer available, and he certainly does not sound like the most informed person on the forums...BUT..apparently he had a video of a TKD fighter that outperformed a Muay Thai boxer. This poster was trashed -- and not just on a critique level of the TKD figher's performance, but on a personal level, even with a Forum Leader cursing him. ALMOST everyone made excuses for the fighter in the video, and otherwise demeaned TKD and the poster himself.

    What the hell? The original poster didnt even say that TKD was better than other arts...his thread title was:
    "Proof that tae kwon do doesnt suck just most dojos"

    Whether youre convinced it was 'proof' or not, a lot of the responses were angry, sarcastic, and attacking.

    Like I said before:
    Basically, what you did is not read the website. You looked at whatever style you practiced (TKD) and had your feelings get hurt.
    Did you bother to check his post history? No, you didn't. See, when people post like this
    any1 know of any good tae kwon do schools in garland, tx i already know how to box pretty good now all i need is those amazing kicks so i would appreciate if any1 could tell me if there are any good ones here in garland tx
    or at least tell me how to be able to tell if 1 is a mcdojo
    i already know boxing
    and im looking into acting so those flashy moves might come in handy
    i know it's not good for self defence but thats not y iwant to be in it
    and no im not a troll i just like using numbers
    That thread is the result.
  2. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 12:42am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bjjgame
    Ralphie,
    I haven't read all of the posts..... do not assume that we are all teenage, uneducated, adrenaline junkies that got into martial arts after seeing some UFC fights (I haven't read anywhere that you actually said this, but it's believed enough by people who post your argument that I decided to address it first).
    I dont assume that...and you sound like a very rational person. Thanks for your input.

    Secondly, many of us do subscribe to similar assumptions about martial arts...

    Under these assumptions:
    -Real fighting as a test of style effectiveness is both dangerous and impractical, therefore an approximation must do.
    -MMA style competitions, though significantly different than real fights, are the closest reasonable approximation.
    -The results of these competitions are the best available data as to the effectiveness of different styles at meeting their purpose.
    Truth of the matter is -- since you said you didnt read all the posts -- the point of my original posting was to basically point out the IMPRESSION that this site gave me. Not FIRST impression, but overall after having been referenced to this site and then specific browsing of this site myself before I registered. That impression was that the mission of this site was to basically put MMA/BJJ, muay thai, etc. on a pedestal as the only truly valuable martial arts, and virtually everything else (ESPECIALLY TaeKwonDo) 'sucks' and is ineffective and/or pointless.

    No, I dont need a rundown on the scientific method, and I understand givens and assumptions in math and science, but thank you. Your point is well taken, and despite what many who have responded to me here think, I completely understand, AND AGREE with you (in part).

    I agree that full contact competitions and sparring are the best way to compare art to art in terms of combat effectiveness. However, I dont fully agree with the assumption that all striking and grappling martial arts have a mission to create effective "fighters" only, therefore making this type of competition necessary.

    Most traditional MA schools that I'm aware of claim to teach self-defense, not combat. Self-defense requires no more than the ability to avoid, or respond to and escape from, an attacker. If I'm not going into the military to learn to kill in hand-to-hand combat, my concern would be the ability to fend off an average street thug and get away.

    The mindset here is that if it wont win in the ring, it doesnt stack up to the standard of a quality martial art. Put up or shut up.

    My contention was just that there are many styles of MA out there that are still valuable for a variety of reasons/purposes, and masters in those styles get less respect here than newbies in non-traditional arts. I firmly believe that if I would have come on here as a white belt in BJJ or MT boxing, and joined in on the criticism of other arts, I would have PROBABLY been given much less crap by the forum moderators and other members.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 12:53am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie

    The mindset here is that if it wont win in the ring, it doesnt stack up to the standard of a quality martial art. Put up or shut up.
    Notice what this pertains to?

    Fighting. If you come here and say my art is the greatest ever, you are going to get questioned.

    If you say, as many posters do, it will kick ass and take numbers. What would you expect the response to be?


    My contention was just that there are many styles of MA out there that are still valuable for a variety of reasons/purposes, and masters in those styles get less respect here than newbies in non-traditional arts. I firmly believe that if I would have come on here as a white belt in BJJ or MT boxing, and joined in on the criticism of other arts, I would have PROBABLY been given much less crap by the forum moderators and other members.
    How many threads do you need to prove this isn't true? How many posts do you need to know this isn't true?

    Some of the most ridiculed posters here do BJJ, MMA and other so called sport arts. You really really have only skimmed the surface.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie

    Most traditional MA schools that I'm aware of claim to teach self-defense, not combat. Self-defense requires no more than the ability to avoid, or respond to and escape from, an attacker. If I'm not going into the military to learn to kill in hand-to-hand combat, my concern would be the ability to fend off an average street thug and get away.
    Please define average street thug.
  4. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:03am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Like I said before:
    Did you bother to check his post history? No, you didn't. See, when people post like this
    That thread is the result.
    [quote=It is Fake]


    For the last time, I HAVE been to other areas -- I just pulled that as an example of the kind of senseless badgering done to TKD people, for example. And again for the last time...my feelings are not hurt -- I care about what you think of TKD about as much as you care about what I think!! I'm not married to it....

    And no I didnt look at his other posts, but judging by what he said on this one, he didnt sound like the sharpest tool in the shed. Again, he and his post were torn to shreds without much of a trial. I'm NOT implying other styles/posters dont get badgered, but I do think it's heavily weighted towards the TMA....

    Regardless, you should be able to defend (or control) the kind of behavior on your forum. Of course, one of your own forum leaders has the WORST behavior on that entire thread, so if your leaders set that kind of example, what should I expect from anyone else?
  5. vaquero de las nalgas is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:08am


     Style: Hsing I, Bagua, Chi kung

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    Look, I'm a small guy, so as far as combat is concerned, a 6'6" guy who can bench press 300+ lbs would easily be able to take me in a fight,
    welcome to bullshido.

    hopefully we all train to take out 6'6" guys who can bench press 300+ lbs. i certainly do. but your alternative - lead poisoning - is a good one.

    yes, this site is populated by many mma/bjj fanatics. it's like watching a fish tank. however, once in a while the sharks will come out and shoot holes in their overexuberant self- fondling endorsements of th3 d34d7y UFC...
  6. bjjgame is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:09am


     Style: brazillian jiu jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, I have posted this quote so many times that I'm certain that some members are sick of it, but it is very meaningful to me and central to my philosophy on life:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayn Rand
    When I disagree with a reasonable man, I let reality be the final arbitor. If he is wrong, he will learn. If I am wrong, I will. One of us will win, but both will profit.
    What, other than MMA, would you suggest as the "final arbitor"?
  7. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:29am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Notice what this pertains to?
    Fighting. If you come here and say my art is the greatest ever, you are going to get questioned.

    If you say, as many posters do, it will kick ass and take numbers. What would you expect the response to be?
    Understood. If I did that I would EXPECT you to question me. Depending on how respectfully I asserted myself, hopefully you would do it respectfully and not start cursing at me right out the gate. In the case of this guy...he was not saying his art was the greatest..he merely said it didnt suck, but at the same time he said that most schools did. This video was apparently trying to show that the fighter's TKD skills were obviously very effective againt an MT boxer, and thus he was a good fighter with good training.


    Some of the most ridiculed posters here do BJJ, MMA and other so called sport arts. You really really have only skimmed the surface.
    Again I dont doubt many others are badgered, and I HAVE seen some of it. No, I have not searched the entire forums inside and out, but based on what I saw, TKD and otherwise, there appeared to be a heavy bias towards TMA, especially TKD.


    Please define average street thug.
    Average size/build, not especially large/small, and very likely NOT trained in any type of martial art/hand to hand combat. Obviously not too bright, and otherwise a total loser. Any martial arts training will put you at an advantage over that guy. Again, if you find yourself up against a pissed off/drunk navy seal or prize fighter, that would be a different story...

    But as I also mentioned in my very first post...I actually dont believe in ANY of this as the BEST line of self defense in the modern world. Chances are that thug will have a gun anyway. I think the concealed carry permit is the absolute BEST 'martial art' if you find yourself out of your league or overrun.
  8. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 2:00am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bjjgame
    Okay, I have posted this quote so many times that I'm certain that some members are sick of it, but it is very meaningful to me and central to my philosophy on life:

    What, other than MMA, would you suggest as the "final arbitor"?
    I'm saying to experience the benefits of a martial art, there does not have to be a final arbitor to decide which is better....But a dedicated effort on the part of the school to instill what combat readiness the art does offer.

    1. Sparring -- obviously will help you hone your MA techniques on live opponents with the same opposing skillsets. I agree that full contact would be best. My school does semi-contact -- it's a compromise, but obviously not ideal, and I DO NOT agree with no contact.

    2. Resistance self defense drills for typical street attacks from untrained opponents. Typical attacks...someone trying to grab, throwing a punch, run at you, etc.
  9. Nefron is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 6:01am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    Average size/build, not especially large/small, and very likely NOT trained in any type of martial art/hand to hand combat. Obviously not too bright, and otherwise a total loser. Any martial arts training will put you at an advantage over that guy.
    Ehh,no.Some martial arts can really **** up your perception of reality.The thug rushes you,arms flailing and you drop to your horse stance,one hand at the hip and get ktfoed. Or,you do one of your semi contact tkd kicks,dont faze him and end up mounted and ground and pounded. Almost all martial arts will help you develop more stamina,strength etc. but any other sport will do this.
  10. han090 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 7:55am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron
    Ehh,no.Some martial arts can really **** up your perception of reality.The thug rushes you,arms flailing and you drop to your horse stance,one hand at the hip and get ktfoed. Or,you do one of your semi contact tkd kicks,dont faze him and end up mounted and ground and pounded. Almost all martial arts will help you develop more stamina,strength etc. but any other sport will do this.
    This ^^^ is the main problem they have (from what i can tell).

    TMAs often have ineffective training.

    Ineffective training leads to ineffective real life results.

    Especially for those who have an inflated sense of their abilities thanks to said training.
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