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  1. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:34pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    I probaly will....so far the only people posting, save for ONE (who didnt refute my point), seem to be MMA/or BJJ practitioners. Nefron acknowledged at least one of my points, and you told him he was wrong for doing so.
    the person youre arguing with the most is not a mma/bjj person.
    if you want to do an art which won't teach you how to fight well (like most TKD) thats fine, just understand what youre doing and don't claim its teaching you how to fight, none of us will have a problem with that, you really need to lurk more.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:40pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    You misunderstood. I'm not slinging around my rank. I dont have one. I have NO rank....I'm a white belt. I said I DONT have a black belt to be offended about...
    Bad typing on my part. Your rank isn't an issue to anyone here. No one cares if you are new or a Black Belt. If the art regardless of style has a very bad track record, it will be ridiculed.



    I probaly will....so far the only people posting, save for ONE (who didnt refute my point), seem to be MMA/or BJJ practitioners.
    Really? What where you told to do earlier?


    Look at style fields.

    Have you done that yet?

    Nefron acknowledged at least one of my points, and you told him he was wrong for doing so.
    He said he saw what you meant. I said nope because, you don't even know what you mean.



    I dont need a strawman...
    You still built one.

    even on other websites I see the same MMA arguments...but it's not the mission of the website, so all arts are discussed pretty much equally.
    Other styles, that do what they claim, are respected here. If you posted and read everything but TKD threads you would know this already,


    ...And the word 'kill' may be strong, but you can substitute for 'K/O' or 'submit'. It's not a basis for a false argument. The point is "UFC-useful" fighting techniques.
    This is ridiculous. You know there are TKD fighters in K-1 and UFC right? See, what you are doing is showing bias yourself.

    the difference in my argument is that I am NOT spouting TKD effectiveness. If I were a Tai Chi fanatic, with no interest in sport or sparring or self defense, I'd have drawn the same conclusion.
    Unless, you took the time to read the website. Then you would see many posters respect wushu, Tai Chi, etc etc for health or performance.
    Again, it goes to show you haven't read the website.

    I have. Just realize that arguing that one martial art is better than another is like arguing that painting and drawing suck, because sculpting is the only real 'art'. Playing bass and guitar suck because REAL musicians play drums.
    Really bad analogy. See because many people here, minus the trolls, argue effectiveness.

    Or, to use your music analogy. Using Violin Clef sheet music to play the drums is wrong. Then to try and change the title to Drum sheet music doesn't make it work.

    If you enjoy what you do fine. If you think what you are doing is effective have proof available.
  3. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:55pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ralphie, I'm gonna save you a decade or so of wasted time. I'm a BB in TKD, I fought in the 2004 ITF World Cup, I've been nationally ranked in the top 10 for point sparring in the ITC ( Which is now defunct). I've done a lot of TKD. Don't waste your time.
    The likelihood of finding a TKD School that will teach you anything practical is minuscule. The school I went to was pretty hardcore as TKD schools went at the time. We did full contact sparring once a week (Under a TKD rules set) and generally worked pretty hard and our guys could fight pretty good. One of them even went on to train MMA and does pretty well out on the west coast. Despite this, I was manhandled by a girl 10lbs lighter than me with 1/5th the experience because I didn't know how to clinch and could barely punch.
    Go start Muy Thai or Kyokushin if you want a good standup art, or Boxing even. Crosstrain it with Wrestling or Judo and BJJ.
    That's the ideal. But any one of those will give you more useful tools and put you in better shape than TKD.
  4. bombom is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:04pm


     Style: Getting less fat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Ralphie: Many of the folks here have trained in the so called traditional styles. Many of them still do. Some people here do rag on other styles, but who cares?

    The concensus on this site is that any school that features a good amount of continuous sparring against a resisting opponent has something to offer.

    So, if your school spars, other than point fighting, you are on the right track.

    While you are here, check out the armory. Lots of good info about things that go boom.

    Welcome to Bullshido.

    bombom
  5. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If there are other traditional MA artists out there, especially striking arts like TKD, that think this forum gives them respect and a fair shake as an art, I hope they contribute to this thread. I actually would LIKE to be proved completely wrong.
    ok ralphie, you wanted to hear from people from traditional arts. that's where i started - a school that prides itself on faithfully passing on knowledge from generation to generation, no sporting focus, no money focus, just a small school training hard and sparring hard, occasionally checking in with our old dude from japan.

    i'm still at that school, where we're still staying true to our roots, but slowly updating our methods at the same time (in large part due to the influence of bullshido on me). what i learned here, more than anything else, where two simple things:

    • in martial arts, the only tradition is kicking ass.
    • if it doesn't directly and immediately pertain to taking the other guy's head off, question it.


    that's it. martial arts is about fighting, and everything else is window dressing. i'm not saying there's necessarily a problem with the other stuff; i'm perfectly with happy dressing up in a gi and a belt, shouting at each other in some bullshit language none of us understand, bowing all over the place... that's all cool. it provides a framework that helps some people (like me) to learn.

    the thing you have to understand is that the fundamental philosophy of this site is to move martial arts forward, so that we can all train to a higher level, however we train. it's not "question and discard everything we don't like." it's not "give a pass to bjj and mma." it's question everything, keep what works, and ditch the bullshit. truly 'traditional styles' endure, regardless of how things change, because they continue to verify the effectiveness of everything they do.

    if you look around, there are established, respected posters who both believe what i've talked about above, and train in styles from all over the world, regardless of whether or not they're 'bullshido approved.' we've got mma fighters, boxers, wrestlers, jiujitieros, judoka, karateka, aikidoka, jujutsuka, tkdists, chunners, cmaists of all stripes, stick fighters, nak muays, historical euro types, russian stylists... you name it. they all find common ground here. are there posters who exist to do nothing but give other people ****? welcome to the internet, of course there are. we expect our posters to have thick skins. the only group this site actively discriminates against are people without the ability to stay calm.
  6. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:12pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    Good work, Bullshido!!!!

    I read the newbie sticky note, and I know I'm probably violating one or two 'rules', but here goes anyway.

    It appears that the main point of this site is not just to weed out the BS, but specifically so that MMA guys have a forum to pound their chests and criticize not only TKD but virtually everyone else, and often posters do so simply out of ignorance of the art they are criticizing.

    Again, thanks!

    Dude, you TOTALLY go my fuckin' number! Right on! :guitar:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
    Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:
  7. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 9:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=pauli]
    ok ralphie, you wanted to hear from people from traditional arts. that's where i started - a school that prides itself on faithfully passing on knowledge from generation to generation, no sporting focus, no money focus, just a small school training hard and sparring hard, occasionally checking in with our old dude from japan.

    i'm still at that school, where we're still staying true to our roots, but slowly updating our methods at the same time (in large part due to the influence of bullshido on me). what i learned here, more than anything else, where two simple things:
    • in martial arts, the only tradition is kicking ass.
    • if it doesn't directly and immediately pertain to taking the other guy's head off, question it.
    Thanks Pauli...OK, now, instead of mudslinging (on ALL our parts), we're getting somewhere. I referenced that in my initial post...that martial art is combat art. OK, so your point and the point of this site is to determine if all martial arts meet that criteria. Your explanation is a bit more concrete...but still coincides with what some others have said about the mission of bullshido.net. I cannot dispute that, since that's the point of the site (and as it was pointed out earlier, nobody cares what I think about how this site works anyway--nor should they-- and I was not forced to post here).

    that's it. martial arts is about fighting, and everything else is window dressing. i'm not saying there's necessarily a problem with the other stuff.... that's all cool. it provides a framework that helps some people (like me) to learn.
    Again, I respect that opinion. As long as 'the other stuff' is respected in it's own right that's OK. The guy who said I would waste my time getting a bb in TKD (he did the same and competed at the intl level) has a negative opinion of it, and that's fine. I cant speak for him, but I would think he does not really regret ALL that time spent, as he has probably found some usefulness in what he learned as background, just as you have.


    the thing you have to understand is that the fundamental philosophy of this site is to move martial arts forward, so that we can all train to a higher level, however we train. it's not "question and discard everything we don't like." it's not "give a pass to bjj and mma." it's question everything, keep what works, and ditch the bullshit. truly 'traditional styles' endure, regardless of how things change, because they continue to verify the effectiveness of everything they do.
    OK, so to be constructive then...let me ask you a question. Do you feel the 'karate generation' as they call it -- getting kids involved at a young age (instead of soccer, or baseball, or gymnastics) -- is responsible for that weakening across the board? Obviously not all parents are going to put their 6 year-olds in a full-contact sparring extracurricular, and of course if kids get bored and dont earn rank soon enough, they may want to quit (hence the tendency to create mcdojos).

    What do you feel is the best alternative to getting kids involved? Should it be no contact or semi-contact to concentrate on the basics, like bagwork, forms, etc, until a certain age, like 13, 14, or even adulthood? Or do you feel parents should skip MA altogether?


    the only group this site actively discriminates against are people without the ability to stay calm.
    I've been calm as can be. There are others I think have raised their blood pressure a bit, though... :icon_twis

    Seriously, though. I appreciate the constructive and destructive comments from all...:icon_comp
  8. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 9:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Dude, you TOTALLY go my fuckin' number! Right on! :guitar:
    Thanks SFGoon for helping me illustrate my original point...I'll bet I've seen many of your posts in the past...:angry9:
  9. han090 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 9:47pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most of the TMA mocking is lighthearted anyway.

    What bullshido has a problem with is:
    a) ineffective fighting, claiming to be effective
    b) ineffective teaching of fighting, claiming to be effective

    The reason MMA is brought up so much, is because you'd expect most effective techniques to feature even a little in MMA. Essentially, if it doesn't work in the ring, then it doesn't work at all.

    For that matter, i've seen some TKD style kicks used in MMA.

    Ineffective teaching is their main beef with TMA.

    Traditional martial arts are more often taught without full contact sparring (or without sparring at all), and despite this, the practioners have the belief that they're training has given them deadly skills, which ends up getting them into trouble if a real fight happens. It then also gives a bad reputation to people who've been taking martial arts properly.

    I don't think raising any of these issues would get you banned though.
  10. han090 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 9:51pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=ralphie]
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    OK, so to be constructive then...let me ask you a question. Do you feel the 'karate generation' as they call it -- getting kids involved at a young age (instead of soccer, or baseball, or gymnastics) -- is responsible for that weakening across the board? Obviously not all parents are going to put their 6 year-olds in a full-contact sparring extracurricular, and of course if kids get bored and dont earn rank soon enough, they may want to quit (hence the tendency to create mcdojos).

    What do you feel is the best alternative to getting kids involved? Should it be no contact or semi-contact to concentrate on the basics, like bagwork, forms, etc, until a certain age, like 13, 14, or even adulthood? Or do you feel parents should skip MA altogether?
    There's no problem with sending kids to learn martial arts. There's not even a problem with having absolutely no contact sparring, or sparring of any kind.

    BUT, it should be pointed out that they are only learning the foundations of the martial arts skills, so that they can later learn the martial art using full contact, and resistant partners.

    Once it's made clear that the focus is fitness, flexibility, and learning basic techniques, rather than learning to be an azamazing street fighter, no one here would have a problem with that.

    (i mean, it'd be no different that learning tennis, or football!)

    There was a thread about tai chi here recently, asking if it was bullshido. The general consensus was no it wasn't, because few of the teachers claim it to be anything other than a good exercise.
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