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  1. Nefron is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:30pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    But to assume they are 'right' about why all the other arts 'suck' means that the only valuable aspect of MA is what will kill a man in a street fight. Thanks!
    Ok.I get your point. The problem is when some guys advertise their martial art as capable of killing a man in a street fight but in fact it can only get its practitioner killed.I have no problem with no contact sports.You can do gymnastic,but dont sell it for something effective in a fight.That is the thing this site is trying to root out.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron
    Ok.I get your point. The problem is when some guys advertise their martial art as capable of killing a man in a street fight but in fact it can only get its practitioner killed.I have no problem with no contact sports.You can do gymnastic,but dont sell it for something effective in a fight.That is the thing this site is trying to root out.
    Actually no you really don't get his point. He has built a strawman and filled it with assumptions.

    What MMA says your art is only effective if it kills? He started with a flawed argument to begin with.
    It is a rant. What you just mentioned is only part of the entire pie.
  3. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:33pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Basically, what you did is not read the website. You looked at whatever style you practiced (TKD) and had your feelings get hurt.
    I see your point, but no. My feelings arent hurt -- I havent been in this long enough, and no one can tell me my black belt is worthless, because I dont have one -- so that's not even an issue.

    I saw several other arts being ridiculed as well -- tang soo do, various styles of karate, of course CKD and TKD, Tai Chi. I'm sure the well-versed posters strayed from this, but look --your logo has a bull wearing boxing shorts and gloves, and your rules say it's OK to ridicule TKD. You cant deny there is a bias. Bias is OK...by the way...as long as you are fair. And it's the fairness I havent seen.

    Also, as I said before....I CHOSE TKD, after considering tang soo do, shotokan karate, choi kwan do, and even AFTER reading from the people who made fun of TKD being a useless sport, some of which were posts from this site. As I said in a previous post on this thread....I dont expect to do a spinning hook kick in any average street fight.

    If there are other traditional MA artists out there, especially striking arts like TKD, that think this forum gives them respect and a fair shake as an art, I hope they contribute to this thread. I actually would LIKE to be proved completely wrong.
  4. Nefron is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:40pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You don't get respect.You earn it.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 6:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    I see your point, but no. My feelings arent hurt -- I havent been in this long enough, and no one can tell me my black belt is worthless, because I dont have one -- so that's not even an issue.
    See, this is a srawman. Who knew you had a black belt?
    You are upset. When you start slinging around your rank and thinking everyone (you keep generalizing) hates TKD shows, that you are upset.


    I saw several other arts being ridiculed as well -- tang soo do, various styles of karate, of course CKD and TKD, Tai Chi. I'm sure the well-versed posters strayed from this, but look --your logo has a bull wearing boxing shorts and gloves, and your rules say it's OK to ridicule TKD. You cant deny there is a bias. Bias is OK...by the way...as long as you are fair. And it's the fairness I havent seen.
    Or maybe you fail at jokes and sarcasm????????

    How can you see fairness when, you are new to Martial Arts? You are also new to this website.

    Let's see We have mods/Staff that hold Black Belts in Karate, Tang Soo Do, TKD, Judo, Kung Fu, Wing Chun etc etc etc. and other arts.

    So really, stop.

    Also, as I said before....I CHOSE TKD, after considering tang soo do, shotokan karate, choi kwan do, and even AFTER reading from the people who made fun of TKD being a useless sport, some of which were posts from this site. As I said in a previous post on this thread....I dont expect to do a spinning hook kick in any average street fight.
    So, you admit bias when reading posts? Gotcha.

    You obviously didn't read an entire thread. A large percentage of TKD Hate threads [sarcasm] start similar to this one.

    You know a TKDer comes in spouts a bunch of nonsense about culture, respect, tradition, then at some point prattles on about effectiveness. They insult the sport arts and star building strawmen.

    If there are other traditional MA artists out there, especially striking arts like TKD, that think this forum gives them respect and a fair shake as an art, I hope they contribute to this thread. I actually would LIKE to be proved completely wrong.
    Better yet how about you actually look at the website. You obviously have not.,
  6. ralphie is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    See, this is a srawman. Who knew you had a black belt?
    You are upset. When you start slinging around your rank and thinking everyone (you keep generalizing) hates TKD shows, that you are upset.
    You misunderstood. I'm not slinging around my rank. I dont have one. I have NO rank....I'm a white belt. I said I DONT have a black belt to be offended about...



    How can you see fairness when, you are new to Martial Arts? You are also new to this website. Let's see We have mods/Staff that hold Black Belts in Karate, Tang Soo Do, TKD, Judo, Kung Fu, Wing Chun etc etc etc. and other arts.

    So really, stop.
    I probaly will....so far the only people posting, save for ONE (who didnt refute my point), seem to be MMA/or BJJ practitioners. Nefron acknowledged at least one of my points, and you told him he was wrong for doing so.


    You know a TKDer comes in spouts a bunch of nonsense about culture, respect, tradition, then at some point prattles on about effectiveness. They insult the sport arts and star building strawmen.
    I dont need a strawman...even on other websites I see the same MMA arguments...but it's not the mission of the website, so all arts are discussed pretty much equally.

    ...And the word 'kill' may be strong, but you can substitute for 'K/O' or 'submit'. It's not a basis for a false argument. The point is "UFC-useful" fighting techniques.

    the difference in my argument is that I am NOT spouting TKD effectiveness. If I were a Tai Chi fanatic, with no interest in sport or sparring or self defense, I'd have drawn the same conclusion.

    Better yet how about you actually look at the website. You obviously have not.,
    I have. Just realize that arguing that one martial art is better than another is like arguing that painting and drawing suck, because sculpting is the only real 'art'. Playing bass and guitar suck because REAL musicians play drums.

    I do however agree with Nefron, that selling your art as a total self defense package when it is not IS wrong. My school, however, told me no such thing when I was interviewing with him...in fact, he specifcally told me that if a fight went to the ground, I'd have to have other skillsets.

    Again, no worries, my friends. I just hope we all enjoy what we do without the assumption that I have to be better than you (at the ONE thing *I* decide makes me better).
  7. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:19pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's another point to consider, this site has thousands of members. Many new members think they can curry favor from the senior posters by bashing -insert TMA here-.

    In addition, hundreds of people here have had bad experiences with TMA's that are ridden with Bullshido. That tends to have a cumulative effect on the site culture over time.

    Lastly, we don't care if you approve of our methods. While sometimes we suffer from being overly judgemental, I can personally recall dozens of "Thank you Bullshido for saving me from my poorly taught martial art." threads.

    No one is forcing you to post here.
  8. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:24pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also understand that many have trained in mcdojo's. But what is unfortunate is that many have gotten a bad impression of an art because of a mcdojo. I've also spoken with many others who warned me of McDojo's, but still had a strong passion for their art. I'm sure there are just as many bad MMA dojos, boxing gyms, etc. out there that are more concerned with profit than quality training, too.
    Actually, as far as I know, mcdojoism is more common in non-contact traditional martial arts. Schools of martial arts that have a full-contact sport venue tend to be of a higher quality because students have a means to test their fighting abilities against students of another art.
  9. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:26pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tl;dr version, this site is a great resource, but sometimes you have to wade through the crap to find the gold.
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 7:27pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphie
    You misunderstood. I'm not slinging around my rank. I dont have one. I have NO rank....I'm a white belt. I said I DONT have a black belt to be offended about...
    Then why should we accept your claims as at all credible?






    ...And the word 'kill' may be strong, but you can substitute for 'K/O' or 'submit'. It's not a basis for a false argument. The point is "UFC-useful" fighting techniques.
    Ironically, it is often the arts that do not have a lot of sparring, or teachers who do not offer a lot of live training, that advertise their arts as especially deadly. You cannot just substitute KO or submit for kill -- that's you backpedaling, nothing more.


    Just realize that arguing that one martial art is better than another is like arguing that painting and drawing suck, because sculpting is the only real 'art'.
    Inapt analogy. Martial arts are designed with purposes and goals in mind; they are practical arts not purely aesthetic arts. The major practical purpose of a martial art is the development of martial prowess. So, Bullshido says, let's see. And as it turns out, the people who practice their arts in non-cooperative situations tend to have significantly more martial prowess than those who do not.

    And, of course, even within the realm of aesthetic arts, there are clearly differences in aesthetic effect, which makes your analogy utterly worthless. An abstract sculpture is generally not going to express the internal life of a single fictional character better than a novel, for example. A motion picture cannot be apprehended in a single instant in the way a photograph or haiku can. Some aesthetic arts are better than others at creating specific aesthetic effects.

    If the practitioners of a martial art claim some level of martial prowess, then it is perfectly fine to ask for evidence, especially as these arts are taught on a for-profit basis. The evidence so far favors some arts over others, and some training regimens over others.
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