no, i have never seen anything like chung used on the street, or in a bar, at a party or anywhere. boxing, yeah. bjj, yeah. kickboxing, yeah. wrestling, yeah.
if you read through the forums you'll find a lot of ex-chunners who've realized that _ing _un, as it's trained in more than 99% of the schools, is of little use in or out of a sports context.
You'll also find chunners who practise _ing _un for other reasons than learning to fight. Whatever floats their boat, I guess. But it's not for me.
Every martial art has a set of base techniques that make up the core of the system, correct? They are the fundamentals of the art. Now if those fundamentals don't work under controlled circumstances (i.e. sportive), then why should they all of a sudden work when they are put in uncontrolled circumstances (i.e. street)? If it doesn't work it doesn't work. So don't give us the whole "too deadly" speech.
I have never used pure Chun during bouncing, sparring, or any of the freelance assassination & human trafficking I did. However, there were occasions when the JKD-modified Chun did come into play. This was usually extremely simple traps & extremely brief straight blasts into clinching, where Chunning ended & Kali/Muay Thai began. Overall, I found Panantukan to be of much greater use than Chun & its training regimine to less of an exercise in theoretical wastes of time.
Originally Posted by Ryno
There it Goddamn is right there. We have so many fucking threads on this crap and it's wrapped up right there in a few short lines.
LOL @ the OP named 'seriousbadboy' and does the chun.
I've also heard the argument from Chunners that if you change the target, you can make a base technique into a "deadly one". For example, bil gees. If your base techniques are so bad that you can't hit a guy in the temple, chin, liver, spleen, kidney, solar plexus - regardless of street or sport - how the **** do you imagine you're going to hit something as small as the eye, especially when the guy is moving around.
Originally Posted by Ryno
Spine, groin, knee, and eyes are supposedly the "deadly" targets that can somehow magically make a crappy chun techniques work on the street. The response is the same as Ryno's: you gotta crawl before you can walk. If you can't land good technique on more high percentage targets, how can you possibly expect to do it on low percentage targets.
The only strenght that Wing Tsun has is that of aggresive marketing.
A few examples:
1) In 1993 Sifu Frank Schäfer (has a WT school in Amsterdam) wrote a letter to a dutch fight sport magazine (Zendokan/Fighting Spirit) with a challenge for Remco Pardoel, Hans Nijman and Bas Rutten. These three were in 1993 the best known cagefighters and pancrase fighters in the Nederlands.
The challenge was that they could fight Emin "You haven't seen WT until you've seen Emin" Boztepe at the WT school in Amsterdam teaching a seminare.
Z/FS contacted Remco and Hans (Bas lived at that time in LA) and they agreed to fight Emin, but a few weeks before the fight Remco broke several bones in a cagefight, so it would only be Hans Nijman.
Day of the fight, Hans shows up with a reporter and photographer of Z/FS and Emin doesn't want to fight, he wants to talk. Emin explains that the articles in which he speaks degenaritive about cagefighters are full with misquotes and he has no problems with Hans, so he doesn't want to fight.
--> with other words: their marketing campaign backfired.
2) WT promoted itself here in the Benelux as the MA of Bruce Lee. But they went even further with the aggresive marketing:
"Bruce Lee created JKD & Jun Fan Gung Fu because his level of skill wasn't high enough in WC. He added techniques of inferiour MAs to patch the holes in his Wing Chun skills. If he had stayed with Yip Man and learned everything about WC he wouldn't need to learn any other MA.
Leung Ting stayed and learned the complete skillset of WC from Yip Man and then added the anti-grapple groundtechniques. By adding these techniques WT is better than any other form of WC and superior to JKD."
Every form of WC, especially WT, is all about the talk that they are the deadliest, but they NEVER EVER have proved it.
edit: I took my user name of a Kyokushin Karate club where I crosstrained, in Belgium Zendokan/Fighting Spirit was known under the name Fighting Spirit.
Last edited by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs; 10/18/2008 4:05pm at .
There have been a few vids of WT people fighting in amateur MMA promotions in Europe and winning, so it's not exactly NEVER EVER.
Originally Posted by Zendokan
How much WT was actually used and how much crosstraining played a role in their victories are still up for debate, but still, they were WT guys winning in MMA.
Just setting the record straight so chunner noobs don't come flying in here with youtube links and HAR HAR.
I swear, every video of chunners getting their asses kicked or performing mechanical, clanky kata, and every thread where actual practitioners of the chun stand up and say that it sucks, fuels the fire of morbid curiosity which compels me to go out and actually try that **** out. How can I resist the intense curiosity to find out, by myself, if Chun Fu is as bad as everyone says?
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