222020 Bullies, 4085 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 24
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. v1y is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    657

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:24am


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    most boxing fans have tma'ers mentality?

    Alright so we all know what happens when a wing-chun nuthugger watches a video of a wing-chun guy getting his ass kicked. Instead of accommodating the information, "wing-chun is not invincible" (as it turns out wing chun not being invincible is the least of its problems), the person accommodates the new information in such a way that most of his original beliefs are maintained. He accomplishes this by saying, "well the guy that got his ass kicked must not have the real wing chun, he's not a real wing chun practitioner!".

    Kelly Pavlik was ranked top 10 p4p for sure by most boxing rankings, and #1 in his weight class. Yet after he lost last night, there really were an unbelievable number of threads on how "pavlik can't box".

    Contrast this with jiujitsu and the ADCC. If someone gets to the ADCC and gets subbed in 2 mins by marcelo garcia -- does ANYONE say that this person can't grapple? It's very easy for us to accommodate the idea that this person is still a fantastic grappler with an amazing understanding of jiujitsu -- and that this person can be subbed in 2 mins.

    Boxing fans it seems do not share this mentality. If you get your ass kicked by a superior boxer (or just lose based on the style matchup), all of a sudden people are saying "x person can't box". They are somehow unable to accommodate the ideas of being both an amazing boxer, and being able to get your ass kicked.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by v1y; 10/19/2008 8:29am at .
  2. Lebell is offline
    Lebell's Avatar

    Just waiting for the paperboy.

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lolland
    Posts
    12,496

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:30am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no thoughts, i agree with you.
  3. Scott Larson is offline
    Scott Larson's Avatar

    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    1,807

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:37am


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think(hope) those type of boxing "fans" are in the minority.

    I haven't watched the fight yet, but it sounds like Hopkins had the advantage the whole time. This is probably why people are saying he can't box. I'll comment more after I see the fight.
    ________________________________________

    Authentic Kung Fu in Buffalo, NY

    http://www.buffalokungfu.com


    http://www.laoshierinmarkle.com
  4. Siniq is offline
    Siniq's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    the woods of eastern Europe
    Posts
    1,749

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:41am


     Style: Gym drifter

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good call about boxers. It's almost like if you're not undefeated and amazing like Ali or something you arent good at all. Now with that said there is still the denial of a realistic look over the idea of boxing/queensbery rules/. Even Mike Tyson/from the 90's/ would get pwnd in an mma mach.
    Boxing is ok with me, but the nuttriders are anoying as hell. I saw in a forum a whyle ago a boxing vs mma thread where I didnt' know on wich side I'm on. Mainly because sometimes american MMA fanboys are worse!!! In this forum box guys said well your guys dont' get payed and cant' punch worth ****. The MMA guys said well all your guys do is punch and wach who gets more brain trawma. So far so good. But then it all turned ugly!!!!! Boxer guys were like this is just some redneck backyard human cockfighting BS. And the MMA fanboys were like, this is just some brainless N****R HUGGING... and so on with the KKK crap. So sometimes I dont' know who's worse.
  5. Scott Larson is offline
    Scott Larson's Avatar

    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    1,807

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:47am


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I believe the more insular something is, the more "nuthugging" goes on. Also, the older something is the more people desperately latch on to it, which goes back to your point about TMAers.

    MMA will get to that point someday, but not for a while.
    ________________________________________

    Authentic Kung Fu in Buffalo, NY

    http://www.buffalokungfu.com


    http://www.laoshierinmarkle.com
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,006

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:48am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that is one of the reasons I hate watching fights in public. Whenever people watch a fight, all the sudden they are an expert. They have never taken a punch in their life but they can reduce someone's years of practice to "that guy can't box". Pisses me off.
  7. Lebell is offline
    Lebell's Avatar

    Just waiting for the paperboy.

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lolland
    Posts
    12,496

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:54am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Siniq
    Good call about boxers. It's almost like if you're not undefeated and amazing like Ali or something you arent good at all. Now with that said there is still the denial of a realistic look over the idea of boxing/queensbery rules/. Even Mike Tyson/from the 90's/ would get pwnd in an mma mach.
    Boxing is ok with me, but the nuttriders are anoying as hell. I saw in a forum a whyle ago a boxing vs mma thread where I didnt' know on wich side I'm on. Mainly because sometimes american MMA fanboys are worse!!! In this forum box guys said well your guys dont' get payed and cant' punch worth ****. The MMA guys said well all your guys do is punch and wach who gets more brain trawma. So far so good. But then it all turned ugly!!!!! Boxer guys were like this is just some redneck backyard human cockfighting BS. And the MMA fanboys were like, this is just some brainless N****R HUGGING... and so on with the KKK crap. So sometimes I dont' know who's worse.


    learn it's secrets...master it...use it.
  8. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
    Posts
    10,588

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 8:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You will always have armchair coaches.

    Boxing being so big for so long has many of them and they are fickle. As long as you're on top you're great but lose onces, even if its by a split decision, you're a bum.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. Scott Larson is offline
    Scott Larson's Avatar

    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    1,807

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 9:21am


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell
    learn it's secrets...master it...use it.
    WHICH ONE DO I PUSH!? STOP MAKING THIS HARDER THAN IT ALREADY IS!!
    ________________________________________

    Authentic Kung Fu in Buffalo, NY

    http://www.buffalokungfu.com


    http://www.laoshierinmarkle.com
  10. v1y is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    657

    Posted On:
    10/19/2008 10:03am


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    as an extension it really is ridiculous how many people on boxing forums claim that "mma fighters don't know how to throw a punch". i'm not saying there aren't mma guys who look a little sloppy with their hands (cough leben), but these people just talk about "proper" punches as if they simply don't exist in mma.

    it's very important to analyze the consequences of this. wouldn't any rational mma fighter then seek out a boxing gym to learn how to throw a 'proper' punch, since according to this logic the relative gains associated with training at a boxing gym would be HUGE for mma fighters? and as such the implication that mma fighters don't know how to throw proper punches is that mma fighters train irrationally. (in this case, the boxing fans are simply wrong because the vast majority of mma fighters do throw mechanically correct punches -- which obliviously to boxing fans, such techniques are not restricted to professional boxers)

    similar arguments are used by a lot of TMA'ers, in the ideas of their 'deadly' techniques. "Oh yeah, a master would just go in there and break his wrist". Again, the implication is that the mma fighter is too stupid to recognize that by training wristlocks he will improve his abilities as a fighter. Although in this example it's a little bit different because the techniques in question are usually at the very least pseudo-bullshido.

    The fact that no mma fighter (that i know of) is able to consistently use wristlocks is not proof that wristlocks don't work -- but we have to imagine that if wristlocks (and other such tma techniques) did work, then professional fighters would be flocking over to train them. how safe is it an assumption based on this evidence that wristlocks are not effective in mma (or in any kind of combat)? I would argue pretty safe. And, as long as when making this assumption we do so with the caveat of wanting desperately to be given evidence to the contrary (since our hypothesis is definitely falsifiable) -- it's an okay assumption.

    Did i just derail my own thread?
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.