most boxing fans have tma'ers mentality?
Alright so we all know what happens when a wing-chun nuthugger watches a video of a wing-chun guy getting his ass kicked. Instead of accommodating the information, "wing-chun is not invincible" (as it turns out wing chun not being invincible is the least of its problems), the person accommodates the new information in such a way that most of his original beliefs are maintained. He accomplishes this by saying, "well the guy that got his ass kicked must not have the real wing chun, he's not a real wing chun practitioner!".
Kelly Pavlik was ranked top 10 p4p for sure by most boxing rankings, and #1 in his weight class. Yet after he lost last night, there really were an unbelievable number of threads on how "pavlik can't box".
Contrast this with jiujitsu and the ADCC. If someone gets to the ADCC and gets subbed in 2 mins by marcelo garcia -- does ANYONE say that this person can't grapple? It's very easy for us to accommodate the idea that this person is still a fantastic grappler with an amazing understanding of jiujitsu -- and that this person can be subbed in 2 mins.
Boxing fans it seems do not share this mentality. If you get your ass kicked by a superior boxer (or just lose based on the style matchup), all of a sudden people are saying "x person can't box". They are somehow unable to accommodate the ideas of being both an amazing boxer, and being able to get your ass kicked.
Last edited by v1y; 10/19/2008 8:29am at .
no thoughts, i agree with you.
I think(hope) those type of boxing "fans" are in the minority.
I haven't watched the fight yet, but it sounds like Hopkins had the advantage the whole time. This is probably why people are saying he can't box. I'll comment more after I see the fight.
Good call about boxers. It's almost like if you're not undefeated and amazing like Ali or something you arent good at all. Now with that said there is still the denial of a realistic look over the idea of boxing/queensbery rules/. Even Mike Tyson/from the 90's/ would get pwnd in an mma mach.
Boxing is ok with me, but the nuttriders are anoying as hell. I saw in a forum a whyle ago a boxing vs mma thread where I didnt' know on wich side I'm on. Mainly because sometimes american MMA fanboys are worse!!! In this forum box guys said well your guys dont' get payed and cant' punch worth ****. The MMA guys said well all your guys do is punch and wach who gets more brain trawma. So far so good. But then it all turned ugly!!!!! Boxer guys were like this is just some redneck backyard human cockfighting BS. And the MMA fanboys were like, this is just some brainless N****R HUGGING... and so on with the KKK crap. So sometimes I dont' know who's worse.
I believe the more insular something is, the more "nuthugging" goes on. Also, the older something is the more people desperately latch on to it, which goes back to your point about TMAers.
MMA will get to that point someday, but not for a while.
Yeah, that is one of the reasons I hate watching fights in public. Whenever people watch a fight, all the sudden they are an expert. They have never taken a punch in their life but they can reduce someone's years of practice to "that guy can't box". Pisses me off.
Originally Posted by Siniq
learn it's secrets...master it...use it.
You will always have armchair coaches.
Boxing being so big for so long has many of them and they are fickle. As long as you're on top you're great but lose onces, even if its by a split decision, you're a bum.
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
WHICH ONE DO I PUSH!? STOP MAKING THIS HARDER THAN IT ALREADY IS!!
Originally Posted by Lebell
as an extension it really is ridiculous how many people on boxing forums claim that "mma fighters don't know how to throw a punch". i'm not saying there aren't mma guys who look a little sloppy with their hands (cough leben), but these people just talk about "proper" punches as if they simply don't exist in mma.
it's very important to analyze the consequences of this. wouldn't any rational mma fighter then seek out a boxing gym to learn how to throw a 'proper' punch, since according to this logic the relative gains associated with training at a boxing gym would be HUGE for mma fighters? and as such the implication that mma fighters don't know how to throw proper punches is that mma fighters train irrationally. (in this case, the boxing fans are simply wrong because the vast majority of mma fighters do throw mechanically correct punches -- which obliviously to boxing fans, such techniques are not restricted to professional boxers)
similar arguments are used by a lot of TMA'ers, in the ideas of their 'deadly' techniques. "Oh yeah, a master would just go in there and break his wrist". Again, the implication is that the mma fighter is too stupid to recognize that by training wristlocks he will improve his abilities as a fighter. Although in this example it's a little bit different because the techniques in question are usually at the very least pseudo-bullshido.
The fact that no mma fighter (that i know of) is able to consistently use wristlocks is not proof that wristlocks don't work -- but we have to imagine that if wristlocks (and other such tma techniques) did work, then professional fighters would be flocking over to train them. how safe is it an assumption based on this evidence that wristlocks are not effective in mma (or in any kind of combat)? I would argue pretty safe. And, as long as when making this assumption we do so with the caveat of wanting desperately to be given evidence to the contrary (since our hypothesis is definitely falsifiable) -- it's an okay assumption.
Did i just derail my own thread?
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