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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:40pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whaddaya know, CMA has grappling after all
    This book was published originally in 1936. SO, yeah. Also, many arts have "grappling" and submissions.

    You must remember the context.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 10/14/2008 3:43pm at .
  2. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is the book useful? I've heard mixed things--ie, that it's good, but more useful as a historical text.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:44pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    Is the book useful? I've heard mixed things--ie, that it's good, but more useful as a historical text.
    Review:

    Chin Na Fa, Traditional Chinese Submission Grappling - No BS Martial Arts
  4. meataxe is offline
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    International Man of Pancakes

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:50pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3
    So none of the several hundred forms of wrestling that have existed for the last 3000 years all over the world ever managed to be successful at ground fighting? Or am I missing something?
    Not groundfighting in BJJ way--I think that is what the OP was referring to when he said "grappling". On the other hand, CMA definitely does have grappling in the general sense. Taijiquan and shuai jiao have grappling for starters.

    I suppose it is splitting hairs to differentiate full-on ground fighting from arts with ground techniques. Maybe you could say ne-waza or equivalent?
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  5. Scott Larson is offline
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    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:52pm


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hulk Hogan.

    and Pikachu.

    In the same picture, and the universe didn't explode? Impossible.

    Oh yeah, on topic: I agree.
    ________________________________________

    Authentic Kung Fu in Buffalo, NY

    http://www.buffalokungfu.com


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  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:54pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    Not groundfighting in BJJ way--I think that is what the OP was referring to when he said "grappling".
    Especially, with the pictures he chose to post. That was my impression.

    On the other hand, CMA definitely does have grappling in the general sense. Taijiquan and shuai jiao have grappling for starters.
    Yes, this is the semantics issue that tends to rear ist ugly head in these threads.

    The definitions of "wrestling" and "Grappling" vs BJJ and/Sambo vs various techniques found in CMA.
  7. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 3:56pm


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    Not groundfighting in BJJ way--I think that is what the OP was referring to when he said "grappling". On the other hand, CMA definitely does have grappling in the general sense. Taijiquan and shuai jiao have grappling for starters.

    I suppose it is splitting hairs to differentiate full-on ground fighting from arts with ground techniques. Maybe you could say ne-waza or equivalent?

    Actually there are several styles of wrestling that have ground fighting (ne-waza) in them. Catch wrestling comes to mind. And if you think of BJJ one of the main things it brought to the foreground was achieving positional dominance as a primary strategy, which is exactly what most styles of wrestling do.

    And yes I am splitting hairs but as a former wrestler...well you know.
  8. ChickenBeakFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 4:54pm


     Style: Hillbilly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    CMA Grappling:

    YouTube - Shuai Chiao Demo by the Las Vegas Kung Fu Academy

    CMA Grappling:

    YouTube - Combat Bagua Throw

    CMA Inspired Grappling:

    YouTube - Tim Cartmell Standing Grappling DVD (sample)

    Not CMA Grappling:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2IZMPW3ieU

    One day I hope we get this all sorted out. Then I hope we never talk about it ever again.
    Last edited by ChickenBeakFist; 10/14/2008 5:03pm at . Reason: fixed link. my bad.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2008 5:04pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenBeakFist
    CMA Grappling:


    BJJ Black Belt Inspired CMA Grappling:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuP6cApKAD8
    Fixed. Let's be clear.
  10. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 10:23am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To the OP,

    Of course grappling exists in CMA. Anyone with an ounce of sense would not claim otherwise. What you have to look at is the context that the term "grappling" is being used in. Are you referring to something comparable to BJJ? Then the answer is no. Are you referring to something comparable to Judo? Well, then sort of. Shuai Jiao has many motions in common with Judo but it lacks the ground grappling / submission component.

    To be clear Qin Na is grappling. So is Tai Qi, Shuai Jiao, Mongolian Wrestling and Tibetan Wrestling, the main difference being the ruleset. In those wrestling systems as soon as anthing besides your feet touches the ground you are counted as down and defeated. Those systems of grappling almost completely lack sacrifice throwing techniques.

    I have seen clips of a wrestling style that is practiced in Yunnan Provice, I believe by the Dai minority peoples, that does not adhere to the rule that one must remain standing while executing a technique. They utilize sacrifice throws and drop techniques similar to Judo. I don't know what they call they're wrestling style but they have a tournament every year in the mountain villages as part of a festival, I think.
    安氏八极拳学生
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