Whaddaya know, CMA has grappling after all

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:40pm

Whaddaya know, CMA has grappling after all

This book was published originally in 1936. SO, yeah. Also, many arts have "grappling" and submissions.

You must remember the context.

**1point2** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:42pm

Is the book useful? I've heard mixed things--ie, that it's good, but more useful as a historical text.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:44pm

Originally Posted by 1point2

Is the book useful? I've heard mixed things--ie, that it's good, but more useful as a historical text.

Review:

Chin Na Fa, Traditional Chinese Submission Grappling - No BS Martial Arts

**meataxe** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:50pm

Originally Posted by M1K3

So none of the several hundred forms of wrestling that have existed for the last 3000 years all over the world ever managed to be successful at ground fighting? Or am I missing something?

Not groundfighting in BJJ way--I think that is what the OP was referring to when he said "grappling". On the other hand, CMA definitely does have grappling in the general sense. Taijiquan and shuai jiao have grappling for starters.

I suppose it is splitting hairs to differentiate full-on ground fighting from arts with ground techniques. Maybe you could say ne-waza or equivalent?

**Scott Larson** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:52pm

Hulk Hogan.

and Pikachu.

In the same picture, and the universe didn't explode? Impossible.

Oh yeah, on topic: I agree.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:54pm

Originally Posted by meataxe

Not groundfighting in BJJ way--I think that is what the OP was referring to when he said "grappling".

Especially, with the pictures he chose to post. That was my impression.

On the other hand, CMA definitely does have grappling in the general sense. Taijiquan and shuai jiao have grappling for starters.

Yes, this is the semantics issue that tends to rear ist ugly head in these threads.

The definitions of "wrestling" and "Grappling" vs BJJ and/Sambo vs various techniques found in CMA.

**M1K3** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 3:56pm

Originally Posted by meataxe

Not groundfighting in BJJ way--I think that is what the OP was referring to when he said "grappling". On the other hand, CMA definitely does have grappling in the general sense. Taijiquan and shuai jiao have grappling for starters.

I suppose it is splitting hairs to differentiate full-on ground fighting from arts with ground techniques. Maybe you could say ne-waza or equivalent?

Actually there are several styles of wrestling that have ground fighting (ne-waza) in them. Catch wrestling comes to mind. And if you think of BJJ one of the main things it brought to the foreground was achieving positional dominance as a primary strategy, which is exactly what most styles of wrestling do.

And yes I am splitting hairs but as a former wrestler...well you know.

**ChickenBeakFist** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 4:54pm

CMA Grappling:

YouTube - Shuai Chiao Demo by the Las Vegas Kung Fu Academy

CMA Grappling:

YouTube - Combat Bagua Throw

CMA Inspired Grappling:

YouTube - Tim Cartmell Standing Grappling DVD (sample)

Not CMA Grappling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2IZMPW3ieU

One day I hope we get this all sorted out. Then I hope we never talk about it ever again.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/14/2008 5:04pm

Originally Posted by ChickenBeakFist

CMA Grappling:

BJJ Black Belt Inspired CMA Grappling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuP6cApKAD8

Fixed. Let's be clear.

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 10/15/2008 10:23am

To the OP,

Of course grappling exists in CMA. Anyone with an ounce of sense would not claim otherwise. What you have to look at is the context that the term "grappling" is being used in. Are you referring to something comparable to BJJ? Then the answer is no. Are you referring to something comparable to Judo? Well, then sort of. Shuai Jiao has many motions in common with Judo but it lacks the ground grappling / submission component.

To be clear Qin Na is grappling. So is Tai Qi, Shuai Jiao, Mongolian Wrestling and Tibetan Wrestling, the main difference being the ruleset. In those wrestling systems as soon as anthing besides your feet touches the ground you are counted as down and defeated. Those systems of grappling almost completely lack sacrifice throwing techniques.

I have seen clips of a wrestling style that is practiced in Yunnan Provice, I believe by the Dai minority peoples, that does not adhere to the rule that one must remain standing while executing a technique. They utilize sacrifice throws and drop techniques similar to Judo. I don't know what they call they're wrestling style but they have a tournament every year in the mountain villages as part of a festival, I think.