Teaching Ne-Waza in Judo vs. in BJJ

**3moose1** · Posted On: 10/16/2008 7:55pm

Originally Posted by Ryno

Yep. At our club we sometimes refer to it as a "Duck Under", but many guys, myself included, just call it "Money". I hit a ton of variations on this kind of throw.

From ouside off the back of his elbow with a two on one. Inside with overwrap, shoot second arm under like going for a seioe.(personal favorite.) Straight Over/Under Lateral Drop. Etc., Etc. Being a bigger guy, this throw is almost unstoppable if I get an overwrap on my opponent.

On top of that, after landing it, you land straight in side control and he has almost no way to quickly turn into you. And it works great no-gi.

vid plz

**Ryno** · Posted On: 10/16/2008 9:09pm

It looks like my instructor actually had videos of the version coming from the two on one outside grip.

Duck under spoke, from outside:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]nHbjJv35g7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]Ac3IDanEGzM

I don't often get to the outside that cleanly (need to work that grip fighting), but hit it from the inside with a hard overwrap at about the elbow. I then ideally look to shoot my opposite hand up under his armpit on that same side, grabbing the back of his shoulder. Then its an angled spinning drop, same dynamics as demonstrated in the videos above.

Some of my club mates hit it with the overwrap, and by grabbing the belt in front as well.

I'll hit it from a straight over/under as well. What I don't like about this, or the over/belt version is that if my opponent does not know how to fall, he may attempt to post the overwrapped arm as he goes over. This will be a nasty break if it sticks.

With the two on one, either from outside or inside, their arm gets tucked up closer against you, and they are less likely to be able to post with it. I just feel its a bit safer for my training parter, and I also feel that they are less likely to pull out of the grip.

**kultist** · Posted On: 10/17/2008 4:02am

Originally Posted by JudOWNED

No. But I haven't seen our kids do that often either.

I'm surprised, at the judo clubs I went to the teachers spent ages trying to teach the kids out of stiff arming.

**skyrage** · Posted On: 10/17/2008 8:17am

just looking at each martial art's competition style lets you know what each martial art focuses on .. what does it say when a good takedown makes you win a judo match ?? and same goes to bjj .. what makes win a bjj match?

watch this video and analyze it and you will answer yourself

YouTube - Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu VS Judo

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 10/17/2008 9:05am

Teaching newaza in Judo v teaching it in BJJ. The new gym we have is very fortunate we have a BJJ BB, Tim Creduer, and a Judo BB, myself. For the past month we have been teaching in the same classes. Tim gives me a lot of respect, as I do him, and we teach in tandem. Grant it I am not a typical Judo BB in that I don't only subscribe to Kodakan Judo techniques and teach from that list only. I am a bit more open minded and have incorporated some BJJ into my Judo. Most of the BJJ that I have incorported has been either from a seminar, online or helpful hints from BJJ BBs in the area.

Now the main difference between the two methodologies is in the details. (I am making generalizations based on 13 years of practicing Judo and 4 years of "observing" BJJ) In Judo newaza we stress explosion and control. Get to the dominate position as quickly as possible ie a pin. Keep your legs from getting entangled and apply as much pressure once you get them pinned. Submission hunting is when you gain an advantageous position. Submissions should be quick and to the point. Digging for collar chokes and the such or not the preferred tactics of Judo newaza. While they are used as setups like in BJJ the time wasted to get there may result in a stand up.

The BJJ way is dominance and patience. Work yourself to a good position and then make your way through your submission sequence. Pay attention to the details and give your opponent no way out. Either wait for the mistake or force them to make one with pressure from a submission attempt.

The focus for me when I teach newaza to new people or a new technique to experienced students is the equivalent of gross motor skills. Where as when Tim teaches its fine motor skills. I focus on getting the student to learn the basis of the technique. Where Tim expects them to get all the details. I pick out 3 major points of each technique to focus on where he expects the whole. Later on as time progresses I will stress the finer points of a technique and show more intricate setups or finishes.

Generally this has been what I have seen with the BJJ BB I have watched teach as opposed to the Judo BB. I have seen some really good BB on both sides teach and can say I have never seen any bullshit from them. Having attended clinics Neil Adams to Eddie Bravo I can honestly say that they are all effective and inspirational instructors.

Then the rules govern really how you teach newaza. Also newaza for me is a feel thing in Judo competition. If I feel like I can submit the guy with little effort due to a good throw or he left I big opening I will. If not I will stand up and take another shot at the Ippon or throw to good position. Since the rules don't allow me to hunt for submissions in Judo I tailored my newaza as such. Mind you when I competed I was a demon in newaza as a Judo player. I broke several arms in competition and had more than a few players scratching to get away from me on the mat at big tournaments. SInce rolling with good BJJ players I know that my newaza is best suited for Judo competition. While I give them fits when we start from the knees I am 10 times better when we start from standing.

A good example was in class the other day. I am going with Doug, BB in Judo national Sambo champ and purple in BJJ. I get to a jujigatame position on him and he locks up his hands to defend. Doug is as strong as an ox on roids so I know my chances of breaking the grip would be tough. Now the BJJers that are right there are saying just hold the position he will get tired and I would be able to put the armbar on him. I know that Doug is waiting to inch his elbow down and escape if I make the smallest mistake. As a Judo player I am not wired to sit there and wait for him to get tired so I start making a transition to a pin type situation that allows me to hold him down and switch back to the arm bar if he screws up. Now the Judo guys understood that I moved to the hold down as did Doug and he made a switch to escape which gave me the arm bar when I readjusted back to the situation.

So in that situation who was more correct the BJJ way or the Judo way? The answer is it depends on the rules or what your training to compete.