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  1. #31

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    bjj'ers spend more TIME training on the ground.

    because of this, there is a huge expanse in skill on the ground between a bjj black belt and a judo black belt (even if they've both been training for the same amount of time). similarly, there will be a huge expanse in standing knowledge in favour of the judo guy.

    grappling is grappling.
    Last edited by v1y; 10/13/2008 9:37am at .

  2. #32
    Nihonto's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by v1y
    bjj'ers spend more TIME training on the ground.

    because of this, there is a huge expanse in skill on the ground between a bjj black belt and a judo black belt (even if they've both been training for the same amount of time). similarly, there will be a huge expanse in standing knowledge in favour of the judo guy.

    grappling is grappling.
    What he said. It's purely a matter of hours on the mat, that makes one better than the other in ground vs. standup. And in both arts the most time is spent on what will be beneficial in competition. The differences in technique are purely rules driven too - like no wrist locks in Judo. But I'm sure all the BJJ techniques are somewhere in Kodokan Judo. Someone challenged me once to find a BJJ technique that is not in Judo, and I couldn't. Even slamming someone from the guard is a Judo throw (although illegal in competition).

  3. #33
    3moose1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihonto
    What he said. It's purely a matter of hours on the mat, that makes one better than the other in ground vs. standup. And in both arts the most time is spent on what will be beneficial in competition. The differences in technique are purely rules driven too - like no wrist locks in Judo. But I'm sure all the BJJ techniques are somewhere in Kodokan Judo. Someone challenged me once to find a BJJ technique that is not in Judo, and I couldn't. Even slamming someone from the guard is a Judo throw (although illegal in competition).
    In OLD school Judo rules, if you picked someone above shoulder height, that was the equivalent of Ippon.

    Regardless if they have guard, or a triangle, or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey

  4. #34
    1point2's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I always liked that rule. Makes me think of the Hulk.

    "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm IPPONING YOU OVER MY HEAD"

  5. #35

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It makes me want to hit a standing fireman's carry when I hear that.

    v1y nailed it with this very simple response to the original question: bjj'ers spend more TIME training on the ground.

    You get good at what you practice most. My club trains a lot more newaza than most Judo clubs. In a typical 2 hour class, we spend about 1 hour standing, 1 hour newaza.

    Now with that being said, our newaza is based more around an aggressive top game. Our guys hold downs tend to be better than BJJers of similar experience. Our subs from top are comparible. But we don't work guard nearly as much.

    Personally, my guard passing and guard work is not as good as BJJers of similar experience. We've got several BJJ guys that come in, and it's really interesting when we roll. If I get caught in their guard, it is very difficult for me to get out. Often times it's posture, posture, posture, they break me down, I fend off an attack, posture again, attempt a pass, fail, repeat. But if I clear their guard, they have a very difficult time regaining it or breaking my hold down and attacks from top.

    Just last night I was laughing about this with one of the BJJ guys. I mentioned "Damn when I get caught in your guard, I feel like I can't get anywhere." He just laughed "Well, I can never escape your hold downs, so guard feels like my only way to stand a chance."

    All this does is demonstrates where the emphasis is in our training. Since Judo/Sombo guys generally don't play guard as much, we need to make a concerted effort in training to get better at it since it's not as heavily emphasized in normal day-to-day training. Playing more patiently and tactically is also something that many of us could work on. Average BJJers need to work on takedowns and holddowns.

  6. #36

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now its really time to get my nerd on. OK. So basically the whole mage warrior analogy is terrible. A. because in D&D there's not such thing as a mage (its a wizard/sorcerer) and B. because in 3e rules the wizards just pretty much dominate past 5th level and there's no point in multi-classing. In addition, wizards can't cast spells in armor (ok well they can but they have a high percent chance of spell failure unless they decide to go down the route of one of several prestige classes). Ok also in the 4e rule set all of the classes are somewhat homogenous and so again multi-classing is made absolute. What would be a better comparison is the multi-classing of fighters and barbarians. Often Barbarians will get 2-4 extra levels in fighter for the bonus feats and access to weapon specialization. And often fighters will multi-class in barbarian for rage, hit-points, and uncanny dodge. Done and Done.

  7. #37
    100xobm's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the input.
    I'm thinking I may just crank judo on it's own four days a week until I'm BB. Then transition gradually. Because, well, **** throws are cool. And I still get to do all the ne waza I feel like.

    The one thing I appreciate more about Bjj is that there seems to be more competitions where I am. I'd get owned, but comps in general are good fun. Back in my old WC days competition was forbidden because our chain punches kind of had that large hadron collider effect (apparently).

  8. #38
    3moose1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100xobm
    Thanks for the input.
    I'm thinking I may just crank judo on it's own four days a week until I'm BB. Then transition gradually. Because, well, **** throws are cool. And I still get to do all the ne waza I feel like.

    The one thing I appreciate more about Bjj is that there seems to be more competitions where I am. I'd get owned, but comps in general are good fun. Back in my old WC days competition was forbidden because our chain punches kind of had that large hadron collider effect (apparently).

    Oh ya, u'll g3t ur Judo BB in liek, 4 yrs.

    ...


    Train waht you want. If you wanna train bjj and Judo, then train both!


    but no seriously, a Judo BB isn't like a krotty/tkd blackbelt...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey

  9. #39
    JudOWNED's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm thinking I may just crank judo on it's own four days a week until I'm BB. Then transition gradually. Because, well, **** throws are cool. And I still get to do all the ne waza I feel like.
    That would be a win... at life!

    PS. You can still compete in BJJ and sub grappling tournaments as a Judoka.

  10. #40

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3moose1
    In OLD school Judo rules, if you picked someone above shoulder height, that was the equivalent of Ippon.

    Regardless if they have guard, or a triangle, or whatever.
    i thought that was still the rule!?! god i am so fucked, my first judo tourney is on the 26th and i dont even know the rules

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