12/15/2003 1:38pm, #1
Sport, art, and combat effective ?
When Kano created judo, he blended Kito-ryu jujutsu and Tenshin shinyo-ryu jujutsu together.
The throws and ground work came from the Kito-ryu and the locks, chokes and strikes from the Tenshin shinyo-ryu.
Now Kano was NOT an expert on ANY of them, but was proficient in the basics and that is what was in Judo from the start. As the years went by, more was added from other styles.
But, the “true” judo was left till after Black Belt.
What is the true judo?
Judo, at its best, at its most complete and effective, is a blinding combination of strikes and throws, of arm and leg locks, of chokes and strangles, flowing effortlessly from technique to technique.
A 140lbs man, destroying a 240lbs behemoth !!
When was the last time you saw that?
My first judo instructor told me, when you master “true” judo, they won’t know what hit them !
I have had Judo classes in Europe and here in Canada and there is a difference in what and how the BB do it, more striking and choking in Europe, more throwing here.
I only went to Japan once, and while there I had the chance to see the Kodokan Judo BB go at it.
I was very similar to Europe, BUT, it was an open class and I was told that the BB only classes were quite different.
Now I am NOT saying that they are better over there than here, no that is not the case.
But it does seem that some instructors do NOT know the “true” judo.
I have seen some of the BB kata’s that are taught, most are more historical than effective, but the fact is that the “deadly” techniques of the Tenshin Shinyo-ryu were left to be taught at BB level, but where are they?
Yes we ALL learn the chokes and the immobilizations and the arm locks at brown and black, some even earlier than that, but the strikes that the TSR was famous for? Where are they ??
How many of us have been taught them ?
Supposedly they were the curriculum of BB and above.
Why do so few instructors teach them ?
When was the last time you saw the Yama-arashi ( sp?), the “mountain throw”, being taught in a Judo class for example?
12/15/2003 1:46pm, #2
I don't know that much about Judo, but it irritates me when people say that there aren't punches or kicks in Judo... From what I've READ about it, they should be there...
& Of course one problem is it being an Olympic sport now; you'll get great athletes doing Judo, but they'll only practice the moves that get them the points so they can get the cash for being sports stars...
So I guess most teachers today teach the sport, not the MA...
12/15/2003 1:58pm, #3
12/15/2003 2:18pm, #4
It's all becoming "sport" Judo. That is really the only answer. I'm not even ranked in Judo so I can't add much but I think the rules at competition and poor judges are part of it. At my last Judo competition I lost due to ippon and by the time it was over I was standing up ready to fight! I rolled very lightly accross the top of my shoulders and popped back up to my feet. In the old days this would never be a win. But sure enough "Ippon!"
Also I had a RNC sunk in and because I didn't lock it down fast enough they stood us back up. (that one pissed me off.) If they went back to the original Kodakan judging instead of the light Olympic style crap I think Judo would toughen up again.
12/15/2003 2:26pm, #5
12/15/2003 3:32pm, #6
ouch, that's just mean!
12/15/2003 3:49pm, #7Originally posted by ronin69
Indeed, if they make Judo and "safer" it going to turn into wing chun !!!
12/15/2003 10:52pm, #8
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
I dunno how much it matters. Look at Yoshida. He's kick ass in Pride and he did sport judo his whole life. His ground game is BJJ black belt level and his throwing/takedowns are insane. It's not like the top judo athletes couldn't kick the ass of 99.9% of martial artists.You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.
12/16/2003 8:05am, #9
Indeed, the point may be mute, and I also agree that top Judo practitioners are probably some of the best fighters in the world, but don't forget that they are also probably high level in other arts as well, specially in Japan.
I don't know of any top ranked Judoka who are NOT also ranked in other MA as well.
12/16/2003 8:09am, #10