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  1. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 2:06pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    ...I see this problem in the MT class everytime I watch it (at Renzo) they hold the pads almost 45 angle and hence people develop a habit of kicking upwards wich leads to slow, powerless kicks with a good chance that you catch and elbow and break something in your foot/leg.
    Actually, holding the pads at a 45 angle is correct for Muay Thai. This is how the professional Thai gyms hold their pads for their fighters. I obviously disagree with this causing someone's kicks to be slow and powerless, and while I understand the concern about catching an elbow, this actually occuring is rarely the case.



    Moderator Note: Split off from kick shield thread
    Last edited by Torakaka; 10/07/2008 6:02pm at .
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 2:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao
    Actually, holding the pads at a 45 angle is correct for Muay Thai. This is how the professional Thai gyms hold their pads for their fighters. I obviously disagree with this causing someone's kicks to be slow and powerless, and while I understand the concern about catching an elbow, this actually occuring is rarely the case.
    sorry for any derail, but i noticed this when i was in thailand. i wondered about how this seems to go against the "turn the hip over" mantra of muay thai kicking, where holding the pads more upright would actually encourage the kicker to turn their hip.

    do thai gyms ever hold the pads more vertically? is that type of hip turn concentrated on more during bag work?
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  3. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 2:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know that the MT people hold pads like that but this does not negate the point it develops a habit of kicking upwards. I had this discussion with a lot of MT/San da people the best way to convince them is to give them a shield and tell them to kick it with their lead leg, no steping allowed, just kick it at hip hight. And then I show them how I would kick it.
    I don't say kicking like the thays can't be effective but I say you should considder kicking different when you kick above the hip. For lowkicks I would take the thay version over the hip rotation almost every day but for kicking to the lower ribs or even head I tell you that kicking like this is NOT the best way to go. Can it be used? Sure but it is not the best option!

    Edit: Ming loyalist made my point before me.
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

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  4. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 5:54pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I must admit I've never understood why they hold the thai pads at an angle. I've always preferred it when people hold the pads straight so I have a nicer surface to kick.

    So what's the purpose?
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 5:56pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The angle is to protect the pad holder and to make you kick faster on double kicks etc. If you can actually throw a hard Thai kick you can easily hurt your partner through vertical pads. Your form perfection and power training should be done on a heavy bag. Pads are generally for conditioning.
    Last edited by WhiteShark; 10/07/2008 6:01pm at .
  6. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 6:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That makes sense. I've always just met the kick with the pads, though with people that kick pretty hard I have found that their kicks will cut right through the pad and hurt my arms.

    I guess this isn't really a problem for f4n4n and his TKD class (ooooohh!)
  7. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2008 12:52pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The other reason for holding the pads at an angle is the ENCOURAGE fighters to kick UPWARDS!

    If you hold your pads vertical, this will start to encourage the fighter to swing his leg outwards. This is what makes the kick slower and less powerful. A proper Muay Thai roundhouse kicks follows an upwards trajectory UNTIL the point of impact... that is when the hip rolls over and the kicks cuts across its target.

    As an example, I teach novices to throw their kicks with their shoulder against a wall. If they are throwing a right kick, they stand with their right shoulder against a wall. They have to kick straight upwards until they reach the target, then roll their hip over. Otherwise, the tendency is for you to swing your kicking leg out to the side and bring it the long way around, which is slower, less powerful, and much easier to defend (you can see it coming from a mile away)

    And as someone else pointed out, the angle does help cut down the risk of injury from someone missing their target.
  8. 7thSamurai is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2008 2:52pm


     Style: BJJ, Striking, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao
    The other reason for holding the pads at an angle is the ENCOURAGE fighters to kick UPWARDS!

    If you hold your pads vertical, this will start to encourage the fighter to swing his leg outwards. This is what makes the kick slower and less powerful. A proper Muay Thai roundhouse kicks follows an upwards trajectory UNTIL the point of impact... that is when the hip rolls over and the kicks cuts across its target.

    As an example, I teach novices to throw their kicks with their shoulder against a wall. If they are throwing a right kick, they stand with their right shoulder against a wall. They have to kick straight upwards until they reach the target, then roll their hip over. Otherwise, the tendency is for you to swing your kicking leg out to the side and bring it the long way around, which is slower, less powerful, and much easier to defend (you can see it coming from a mile away)

    And as someone else pointed out, the angle does help cut down the risk of injury from someone missing their target.
    I'd like to see video/photos of this drill you speak of.
  9. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2008 1:27pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sure I have video of it somewhere, but it'll take me awhile to locate it, convert it, and upload it to YouTube
    Last edited by Khun Kao; 10/09/2008 1:35pm at .
  10. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2008 9:03am


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK, this is the only video footage I have of the drill. The film clip only shows me demonstrate the move once, then the rest of the footage shows my students butchering the drill.... But at least you can get the idea.

    YouTube - Narrow Roundhouse Kick (MuayThai)
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