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  1. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 3:50am

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by asscowboy
    6) PM Gordon Brown ( UK ) = Irish bare knuckle boxing or....
    Gordo is Scottish, so your link is tenuous at best. He did lose an eye playing rugby though, so I guess he might have had some fight in him at one point.
  2. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 5:34am

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     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by asscowboy
    Lessee, we've got:

    1) Putin (Russia) = judo

    Other countries?
    4) George W. Bush ( US ) = F-104 fighter or crude oil wrestling?
    Er, Mountain biker, surely?


    Not sure there much evidence re the F104. Seem to remember his records were, er, um, "incomplete" when attempting to track if he'd meet his commitment to the National Guard in various states as he successfully avoided Service in Vietnam. "Damn Straight" (say that bit with a 'Merican accent) yet - as ever - poses as the military man cf the Aircraft Carrier etc. FFS. Wanker.

    Oil wrestling. Hmm, think the Turks do that - wearing their trousers turned up to the knee.
  3. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 5:56am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On the civilian casualties front, I'm not sure who wins. Putin has a pretty hefty record from Chechyna, but the US pulled down a figure of a similar order of magnitude in Iraq.
    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/329/7474/1066

    When it comes to civil liberty violations, though, Putin wins hands down. Guantanamo is very small beer compared to the kind of **** the Russians routinely pull.

    Putin is not on the side of sweetness and light. He is, nonetheless, easy to respect. It's like seeing one of the Borgias operating in the modern age; were Machiavelli himself transported into our time period, he'd be in awe of him. He's fiendishly smart and audacious, and comes out of most interviews smelling of roses - I was particularly impressed by seeing his responses to this webcast a while ago:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/5153854.stm

    And, yes, there's probably some kind of ends-justify-the-means argument that could be made for some of his actions. Russia has prospered under him, and he's held back from claiming formal dictatorship, however close to that his actual powers may be. This still does not make him a nice man. He wouldn't be in the position he's in if he were a nice man.

    And, to get back more or less on topic...
    Quote Originally Posted by BBC Journalist
    I was reminded of an interview I once did with the judo trainer who taught Putin when he was at school.

    "He had an unusual ability," mused the teacher. "He could throw in both directions, from left and right. So he could catch his opponents unawares."
  4. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 6:13am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't access that report, but I'd be interested to know if the ratio of civilian deaths caused by insurgents vs those caused by the occupying military forces are the same in both conflicts.

    EDIT: I was being dense, the full report was linked right at the top of the page. It seems that most of the violent deaths were due to coalition forces, though the sampling method looks a bit dodgy to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by sophist
    This still does not make him a nice man. He wouldn't be in the position he's in if he were a nice man.
    Ah yes, the wonderful world of Realpolitik.
    Last edited by CrackFox; 10/15/2008 7:34am at .
  5. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 7:45am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox
    I can't access that report, but I'd be interested to know if the ratio of civilian deaths caused by insurgents vs those caused by the occupying military forces are the same in both conflicts.
    This was a 2004 report, so the insurgency violence reported was pretty minimal, running to something like one-thirtieth of the deaths caused by coalition forces. I've no idea how much insurgency violence was present in Chechyna.

    At the time of the Lancet's estimate, the Iraq Body Count project had a verified and reported 16,000 civilian casualties fallen to coalition forces. Their count now stands at over 80,000. I would suggest that the likely total civilian casualties in Iraq directly attributable to coalition military action since the start of the war very probably exceeds Chechyna.

    However, despite the high civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't believe US and allied forces targetted civilian populations deliberately, unlike Chechyna. That said, in Chechyna the Russians usually gave warnings to the specific urban areas they were going to target next, giving civilians some time to evacuate, so the Russian attacks weren't precisely genocidal massacres either.
  6. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 11:03am


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1775
    Is this thread still going?

    I find it interesting how some people reflexively start ranting and raving about the "evils" of American foreign policy (sometimes with justification, other times demonstrating a complete lack of objective knowledge of the subject matter) every time the actions of Putin, Kim, Mahmud, and the other usual suspects are called into question.

    Its like a person who denounces his wife-beating neighbor being told by the rest of the neighborhood that he has no right to criticize because his father kicked the dog a few times.
    I hate this argument and I hope it dies. This is essentially your argument:

    Me: You sick ****, you just ran over that kid in your car!
    You: Oops, well at least I'm not as bad as Jeffrey Dahmer. He was a real sick **** yo!
    Me: Damn, guess you're right, carry on.

    It's a red herring. Stop using it.
  7. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 11:12am

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    Shawrama, you're all over the place man.
  8. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 11:16am


     Style: Rehab Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    I hate this argument and I hope it dies. This is essentially your argument:

    Me: You sick ****, you just ran over that kid in your car!
    You: Oops, well at least I'm not as bad as Jeffrey Dahmer. He was a real sick **** yo!
    Me: Damn, guess you're right, carry on.

    It's a red herring. Stop using it.
    This is a thread about Putin. You are putting yourself in the wrong role in the dialog.
  9. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 11:27am


     

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    Note to self: Begin reading threads.
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2008 12:30pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was having a conversation with Ed Norris about Putin. Norris has actually met Putin & had no doubt looking in the man's eyes that Putin is completely capable of personal, cold-blooded hands-on murder.
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