Gordo is Scottish, so your link is tenuous at best. He did lose an eye playing rugby though, so I guess he might have had some fight in him at one point.
Originally Posted by asscowboy
Er, Mountain biker, surely?
Originally Posted by asscowboy
Not sure there much evidence re the F104. Seem to remember his records were, er, um, "incomplete" when attempting to track if he'd meet his commitment to the National Guard in various states as he successfully avoided Service in Vietnam. "Damn Straight" (say that bit with a 'Merican accent) yet - as ever - poses as the military man cf the Aircraft Carrier etc. FFS. Wanker.
Oil wrestling. Hmm, think the Turks do that - wearing their trousers turned up to the knee.
On the civilian casualties front, I'm not sure who wins. Putin has a pretty hefty record from Chechyna, but the US pulled down a figure of a similar order of magnitude in Iraq.
When it comes to civil liberty violations, though, Putin wins hands down. Guantanamo is very small beer compared to the kind of **** the Russians routinely pull.
Putin is not on the side of sweetness and light. He is, nonetheless, easy to respect. It's like seeing one of the Borgias operating in the modern age; were Machiavelli himself transported into our time period, he'd be in awe of him. He's fiendishly smart and audacious, and comes out of most interviews smelling of roses - I was particularly impressed by seeing his responses to this webcast a while ago:
And, yes, there's probably some kind of ends-justify-the-means argument that could be made for some of his actions. Russia has prospered under him, and he's held back from claiming formal dictatorship, however close to that his actual powers may be. This still does not make him a nice man. He wouldn't be in the position he's in if he were a nice man.
And, to get back more or less on topic...
Originally Posted by BBC Journalist
I can't access that report, but I'd be interested to know if the ratio of civilian deaths caused by insurgents vs those caused by the occupying military forces are the same in both conflicts.
EDIT: I was being dense, the full report was linked right at the top of the page. It seems that most of the violent deaths were due to coalition forces, though the sampling method looks a bit dodgy to me.
Ah yes, the wonderful world of Realpolitik.
Originally Posted by sophist
Last edited by CrackFox; 10/15/2008 7:34am at .
This was a 2004 report, so the insurgency violence reported was pretty minimal, running to something like one-thirtieth of the deaths caused by coalition forces. I've no idea how much insurgency violence was present in Chechyna.
Originally Posted by CrackFox
At the time of the Lancet's estimate, the Iraq Body Count project had a verified and reported 16,000 civilian casualties fallen to coalition forces. Their count now stands at over 80,000. I would suggest that the likely total civilian casualties in Iraq directly attributable to coalition military action since the start of the war very probably exceeds Chechyna.
However, despite the high civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't believe US and allied forces targetted civilian populations deliberately, unlike Chechyna. That said, in Chechyna the Russians usually gave warnings to the specific urban areas they were going to target next, giving civilians some time to evacuate, so the Russian attacks weren't precisely genocidal massacres either.
I hate this argument and I hope it dies. This is essentially your argument:
Originally Posted by mrm1775
Me: You sick ****, you just ran over that kid in your car!
You: Oops, well at least I'm not as bad as Jeffrey Dahmer. He was a real sick **** yo!
Me: Damn, guess you're right, carry on.
It's a red herring. Stop using it.
Shawrama, you're all over the place man.
This is a thread about Putin. You are putting yourself in the wrong role in the dialog.
Originally Posted by Shawarma
Note to self: Begin reading threads.
I was having a conversation with Ed Norris about Putin. Norris has actually met Putin & had no doubt looking in the man's eyes that Putin is completely capable of personal, cold-blooded hands-on murder.
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