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  1. #61
    Emevas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudOWNED
    Seriously, I thought you were referring to hobbyist lifters, which is what I took Portillo for. If you're talking competitors, then yeah, I can see where you're coming from.

    Well, I was taking it from this quote

    Quote Originally Posted by ElMacho
    Why would you want that? You need to find a simple plan and stick to it. In particular, stay away from machines. They are useful only for what I'd call "intermediate" or "advanced" bodybuilder, someone who already has established a muscular base.


    Quote Originally Posted by Portillo
    I know this is going to sound stupid, but how do you know when you have a muscular base?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    It is indeed mighty crafty, haha. I think Cutler is more a product of politics personally. He wasn't in his best last year, and still made it through.
    No Jay is a product of great Chemistry as in pharmacology:icon_mrgr .

    Lets face since the 60s there hasnt been one IFBB Pro who aint juiced.

    You dont get that big , that ripped that strong on GNC products.

    If you could do a 315 bench natural you are a very strong person.

    Squat Id say 405 I dont do deadlifts so I wont venture a guess.

    The pros of today are monsters Ronnie Coleman was 300 lbs shredded. Arnold in his best was what 230 .

    It is crazy and in every gym it is prevalent .

    If your looking to train natural , Then think more realistic and bring down your poundages. There are always genetic freaks that could bench a mack truck but like I said if you could do a 315 Bench as a natural trainer you have done pretty good for yourself

  3. #63
    Emevas's Avatar
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    Umm...I wasn't claiming that he wasn't juiced. Neither was Arnie, Ronnie, Yates, etc etc.

    However, Jay's win wasn't a product of being on steroids. It was a political victory, because the Olympia has just become absurd as of recently.

    However, I don't think it requires any degree of chemical assistance to hit the lifts I posted for a 200lb man. I was able to reach them without chemical assistance, and have known a great degree of people that have done the same.

    I think people aren't giving themselves enough credit.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Umm...I wasn't claiming that he wasn't juiced. Neither was Arnie, Ronnie, Yates, etc etc.

    However, Jay's win wasn't a product of being on steroids. It was a political victory, because the Olympia has just become absurd as of recently.

    However, I don't think it requires any degree of chemical assistance to hit the lifts I posted for a 200lb man. I was able to reach them without chemical assistance, and have known a great degree of people that have done the same.

    I think people aren't giving themselves enough credit.

    Pro bodybuilding is and always been about Politics , Arnold's victory over Mike Mentzer I think in 1980 was as clear cut case.

    No I agree people can make nice gains and get nice strength and your lifts are nice , But alot people look at these bodybuilding mags and get unrealistic about what they could archieve as a natural trainer. That was my whole point , Not to denigrate. But even I as a younger trainee used to think I would look like my favorite , Im 50 now So i grew up with Arnie , Zane . Columbu etc . But those guys ate Dianabol like it was it candy.

    I think you should train natural , with good diet and a sensible routine and realistic goals like you set. Most people will do ok. But dont expect to be Jay Cutler.

    Much respect to you.

  5. #65
    Emevas's Avatar
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    Yeah, the 1980 victory was pretty ridiculous.

    And yeah, unfortunately, a lot of people are pretty deluded about natural potential. It was a nice aspect of Brawn, in that McRobert makes the distinction quite clear.

    Unfortunately, he does it every other page, haha.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69

  6. #66
    JudOWNED's Avatar
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    LOL @ Arnold's celebrity win in 1980! And I say that as a huge fan.

  7. #67
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    However, I don't think it requires any degree of chemical assistance to hit the lifts I posted for a 200lb man. I was able to reach them without chemical assistance, and have known a great degree of people that have done the same.

    I think people aren't giving themselves enough credit.
    How many people do you know who have reached 500lbs deadlift at a BW of 200lbs who were not competing in powerlifting?

  8. #68
    Emevas's Avatar
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    Well...myself for one.

    I got a couple of buddies that have done it as well. Known some high school kids that have too.

    Edit: That being said however, competing in powerlifting doesn't necessarily mean you are strong. As long as you can lift the bar on the 3 lifts, you can compete. You won't necessarily be competitive, but still.
    Last edited by Emevas; 10/14/2008 2:32pm at .
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Well...myself for one.

    I got a couple of buddies that have done it as well. Known some high school kids that have too.
    All right, substitute "competing in" with "competing or preparing to compete in". I tip my hat to your peer group's desire for self-improvement. I've known a variety of athletes around the 200lb mark who were capable of superhuman things, and although I suspect that several of them could have reached a 500lb deadlift, I don't think any of them ever did.

  10. #70
    Emevas's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well again, with the "prepping to compete in" aspect comes my whole "bodybuilder hopeful" aspect I was going for.

    Again, I imagine that any individual with a desire to enter in bodybuilding is going to have a firm foundation of weight training under their belt, rather than some other sort of athletic endeavor.

    I admit, my view may be skewed because of the people I associate with and the books I read, but I just don't see these levels to be all that extreme for a healthy adult male at 200lbs with a specific goal and good training. Yeah, if they're training to be a better football player, it might be tough, but to be a better lifter? It shouldn't be impossible.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69

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