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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2003 12:35pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well another thing that BJJ lacks is a definitive understanding of self-defense. That was the reason that Royce came out with his book because most of the BJJ instructors were spouting out sport strategies rather than good self-defense skills. Also unless you have a BJJ instructor spouting out stand-up defense against non BJJers their actual NHB skills could be called into question expecially these days. In other words doing BJJ doesn't automatically make you a good MMA fighter as many have found out in the past 2 years.
  2. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2003 12:37pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So true.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  3. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2003 11:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't say that most BJJ instructors don't know self-defence techniques, but I'd agree that they don't teach them often.
    Where I teach we have a beginners class that deals with self-defence: basic striking, kicking and grappling as well as the psychological aspects of fighting. Everyone has to go through this class first, however I don't see the point in doing self-defence training all the time. It's not that hard to beat an untrained fighter in a streetfight, and I don't train for fighting nowadays anyway. I train to beat other BJJ guys in BJJ because it's more interesting to me.
  4. ewdfs is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 4:59am


     Style: -

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    True, fighting someone on the street nowadays for any **** is stupid, every moron is able to carry a gun with him. And that makes me really mad, really, decent people have to "fear" any moron, because they may be carring a gun. Gun sucks, they should be strictly forbidden for any citizens.
  5. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 7:08am

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sincere question for those with more BJJ experience than me: What are the major differences between how BJJ is practiced in the Dojo and how it should be used in a streetfight? Are people here saying that the "self defense" techniques of BJJ are radically different from the everyday techniques of BJJ like takedowns and subs?

    Regards,
    Matt
  6. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 7:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by omega
    Well another thing that BJJ lacks is a definitive understanding of self-defense. That was the reason that Royce came out with his book because most of the BJJ instructors were spouting out sport strategies rather than good self-defense skills. Also unless you have a BJJ instructor spouting out stand-up defense against non BJJers their actual NHB skills could be called into question expecially these days. In other words doing BJJ doesn't automatically make you a good MMA fighter as many have found out in the past 2 years.
    Which book is that?
  7. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 8:47am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt W.
    Not really. But my teachers make sure to specify distinctions between ring-specific strategies and those tailored for the more uncontrolled environments. Last night we worked on ways to make foot and leg locks much more punishing than is strictly necessary for competitions, and strictly illegal for some.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 8:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Indeed, I remember when I was first taught a wrist lock in judo, much like the one in aikido the kote geshi, or something like that, the instructor showed how it is done in training, competition and how to do it on the street, the difference being the speed and amoutn of body weight applied to the twist to either keep it FROM breaking or the snap it like a twig.

    Sometimes all it takes is to apply a technique with more speed and strength to make it devasting for the real world.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 11:24am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by JohnnyS
    I wouldn't say that most BJJ instructors don't know self-defence techniques, but I'd agree that they don't teach them often.
    Actually that's what I meant to say.

    Sincere question for those with more BJJ experience than me: What are the major differences between how BJJ is practiced in the Dojo and how it should be used in a streetfight? Are people here saying that the "self defense" techniques of BJJ are radically different from the everyday techniques of BJJ like takedowns and subs?
    Basically speaking you've got to get out of the mind set of the single person and think about everything that's going on. Gaining position isn't as essential as breaking something on the way down or eliminating the person quicker than even the basic choke hold. IMO I feel this is the reason why striking arts became more popular than grappling arts for many years. Instant results can happen in a slug fest while grappling can be more drawn out. Also the interest of safety comes to mind....

    Hey I think I'll go start a thread on this theory!!!!
  10. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2003 12:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gaining position isn't as essential as breaking something on the way down or eliminating the person quicker than even the basic choke hold. IMO I feel this is the reason why striking arts became more popular than grappling arts for many years.
    I'm only going to go with this theory if you are a strong and capable man. When you decide to engage in a striking match, the advantage would go to the person who actes first(usually the aggressor), and the person who has longer reach and whos body can absorb more punishment. Its not too often you hear stories about a big guy getting jumped by a much smaller man. This is especially true for women.

    I teach self defense and think their are alot of ways a self defense scenario can go. In the true street self defense part, nearly all systems have realistic responses within them. Most of the time these responses are just not drilled and learned in the most efficient manner. BJJ has some of the very best theories on self defense and, IMO, the most realistic and physically probable responses.

    That being said, I think that BJJ instructors dont train self defense anywhere near as much as they should. Self defense needs to be trained a certain way, otherwise when someone grabs Joe BJJ's coller and starts yelling in his face he's not even going to ATTEMPT to grab that guys wrist and push down as haaard as he can. You know why? Because he's going to get pissed and start swinging and trying to take the guy down. Thats what he knows. Thats pretty much all he trains. BJJ is so varied from school to school its amazing. Schools are already getting tournament crazy man. Holding people back from belts to close out divisons, white belts with 37 years experience in wrestling in the novices. Crazy sheeeit.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
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