Itto Tenshin Ryu?

**ShaolinKungPao** · Posted On: 9/29/2008 12:12am

I have a friend who is interested in enrolling into this kenjutsu system. At first, I thought he meant "Tenshin Itto Ryu" but it's not. I've looked on google, bullshido and I've asked some local contacts, but can't seem to find any data. The only thing found is that which a few school sites (theirs) provide. I can't find any lineage, nor any claim of koryu or gendai status in any way. On the flip side, I don't find anything negative either.

I'm about to email one of their schools not far from me for some info, but I wanted to see if anyone here had heard of it before.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/29/2008 4:17am

I've never heard of such a school of fencing, now, that doesn't mean it doesn't actually exist but after 20 years around JSA - I strongly doubt it.

I would however happily go out on a limb and say it's not likely koryu and, possibly wasn't even created by the Japanese - you can go figure where I'm taking this.

www.koryu.com is an excellent starting place for researching olschool bujutsu.

Do you have a link to a website for me to take a look at ?

--Dave

**ShaolinKungPao** · Posted On: 9/29/2008 7:40am

Originally Posted by Rock Ape

www.koryu.com is an excellent starting place for researching olschool bujutsu.

--Dave

I wouldn't have posted if I hadn't already looked there. They've got nothing on it.

Originally Posted by Rock Ape

I would however happily go out on a limb and say it's not likely koryu and, possibly wasn't even created by the Japanese - you can go figure where I'm taking this.

I'm inclined to agree especially on the question of Japanese origins. Mostly as every page I've found is for an American school and each one is populated by "suburban white boys". Apparently, the Hombu is near D.C., but I can't find a website for it to determine if the ryu GM is Japanese or has anything resembling densho. The sites found don't list a lineage, date of inception, or GM name. Neither do they call themselves Koryu, Gendai or any term that could be interpreted as such. THAT was the big red flag that brought me here.

Originally Posted by Rock Ape

Do you have a link to a website for me to take a look at ?

Several:

Sterling VA: http://www.greatfallsbudokan.com/kenjutsu.html

San Diego: http://www.sandiegobudokai.com/index...id=14&Itemid=1

Albuquerque: http://www.sandiabudokan.org/kenjutsu/index.html

On an additional note, I found an article from the Aikido Journal about Ellis Amdur doing a seminar at their Hombu in Maryland: http://www.aikidojournal.com/index?id=1637

Don't know if the article lends any credence to their ryu or not, as I personally know little about Amdur.

**shmuel** · Posted On: 9/29/2008 1:14pm

Isn't that the style of "kenjutsu" made up by Fred Lovret? The same person of Yamate Ryu "Aikijutsu" fame?

**ShaolinKungPao** · Posted On: 9/29/2008 2:39pm

Fred Lovret? Didn't come across that name in my search. I'll check a few things.....

Edit: Yep, his name does, in fact, come up in conjunction with said style, just not on the school sites. Apparently, he's reviled over on e-budo, not that that really says anything. his name doesn't appear in the search function here though.

Your post doesn't suggest good news. Do you know anything about him?

**Nii** · Posted On: 10/01/2008 7:02am

^Why does e-budo's opinion on Fred Lovret not matter?

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 10/01/2008 7:18am

Just as an aside comment(s)

I haven't had the time to do much research since I first commented on this thread however; one thing which stands out in all the websites listed is a common trait and one which sets off alarm bells with me.

If you take the time to compare the information listed on those sites specifically about the Kenjutsu, you'll see lots of references to "oldschool" the information leads uninformed reader to believe that what is being taught is koryu (oldschool) in nature. Yet, there's absolutely no reference to lineage or anything relating to the origins of the school. That suggests a great deal to those who do study (legitimate) Japanese sword arts... Well it does to me anyway.

I don't have any issue with gendai or modern systems of fencing using Nihonto, I do have a problem when westerners "invent" a sword system, give it a pseudo-Japanese name then shroud it in information that leads people to think it isn't what it actually is.

What perhaps people (said with respect) tend to forget or neglect to understand - especially true with any koryu; is that koryu is essentially a study of history. History which is maintained alive by the faithful transmission of the school curriculum however; this aspect, indeed the PURPOSE of koryu study is often entirely missed by those who invent sword arts and then try to pass them off as anything other than gendai budo.

The technical aspects and context of a sword art can only truly make sense (and therefore have an ultimate purpose) if they are actually based upon combative situations which once existed. Look at Seitei kata for example. Here's a series of 12 kata all considered gendai (modern) by JSA terms yet, you can trace the origins (at least the combative context) of those kata back to koryu.

I will never fully understand why people (99.9% of which are westerners) have the need to invent their own "Japanese" sword art. It just baffles me.

**ShaolinKungPao** · Posted On: 10/01/2008 9:33am

Thanks for the input, Rock Ape. That actually confirms some suspicions I have about what I was reading. It's nie to know my worries weren't unfounded. I agree totally with your comments about honestly representing Gendai, my worry was the significant lack of any published lineage or details on current GM/Hombu.

Again, my thanks. Turns out my buddy found another system nearby that is more legit than this one appears.

Originally Posted by Nii

^Why does e-budo's opinion on Fred Lovret not matter?

Personal experience. Perhaps I should have been more forthcoming on that.