Posted On:12/14/2003 1:11am
In pretty much every "young vs old" set of pictures you see of guys who lift weights (or not), the shoulders (muscles that is) seem to get a lot smaller with age. You see some pics of guys in their 50's or 60's even with good arms, chest, legs, abs, (good as in comparable to young guys) but the shoulders always seem to be small compared to young guys.
I assume it has to do with not being able to train them as hard, but what is it about them that makes it so? Is it the way the joint is put together so it wears out more so than others? Very few men seem to be able to keep their yard-wide shoulders when they get old, yet can still keep good muscle mass on their arms, legs, backs and chests. Why for?
Posted On:12/14/2003 1:21am
my guess is that it's back problems
Such as thou art, sometime was I.
Posted On:12/14/2003 2:11am
Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu
I've heard that rotators are pretty much fucked no matter who you are by the time you're that age.
Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
Posted On:12/14/2003 9:38pm
Well, don't quote me but since the shoulders have a higher concentration of androgen receptor sites the loss in mass could be tied to the drop off in testosterone levels with age. The shoulders are the first thing to gain mass when hormones levels surge as a teenager, it would not surprise me if they where the first to lose it when those levels drop. Just a guess.
The man they call FoM
Posted On:12/14/2003 10:30pm
I think Wastrel is closest to being right.
Many of us on this board have stated that some common shoulder exercises are damaging to the external rotators. The shoulder muscles may get bigger but you are doing cumulative damage.
As the person gets older, the damage becomes more apparent and they can no longer do those exercises. They stick mainly to the ones that can still be done without discomfort/pain.
Ask a few older trainers if they can still do heavy behind the neck shoulder press/pull down. I know a few that can't.
Of course I could be totally wrong...
The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
Posted On:12/14/2003 10:48pm
Hmm, old school weightlifters did almost entirely overhead lifts and no bench press. Rotator cuff injuries were unheard of. Same thing with Olympic weightlifters- they do massively heavy overhead lifts and almost never have rotator problems. I think machines and bench press are more to blame for rotator injuries than overhead lifting.
Posted On:12/14/2003 10:52pm
FoM?--which shoulder exercises?
Posted On:12/14/2003 11:46pm
Shoulder press or lat pull down behind the neck.
(those 3 are the worse)
Bench press with a wide grip.
Posted On:12/14/2003 11:57pm
What's wrong with rows? .. To me, rows seem to work the entire muscle group together, back, arm, shoulder, chest, .. this seems like a pretty safe exercise. Am I wrong about that? Prove it.
Posted On:12/15/2003 12:23am
Think about the position your shoulder is in during the movement.
Do a search on google on 'rotator cuff' and add the words 'injuries', 'rehab', 'exercises', 'dangers' etc and see the info you come up with.
The book 'The 7 minute rotator cuff solution' has variations of exercises to limit the danger of certain exercises, but for upright rows, it has a big picture with a large X through it and entire page telling you why its just not a good idea to do.
The Brawn and Beyond Brawn books from Stuart McRobert also has info on why the exercises isn't a good idea. So do the forums on www.hardgainer.com (MrRoberts website). Do a search there and have a look.
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