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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 2:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    I know, dude. I come to the PT forum to get away from this stuff.
  2. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 2:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You didn't do too well at algebra, did you Emevas?

    You see, there are two variables. Strength. And bodyweight. Both can change, up or down.
    And if that is in fact what matters, would the goal be to both increase strength and decrease bodyweight? And to increase strength, one needs to lift in a low rep range, as that is what increases strength. Consequently, if you're doing bodyweight exercises, and you are lowering your bodyweight, you are decreasing your own resistance and therefore no longer increasing strength, but instead incresing muscular endurance, which isn't "what matters".
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 2:35pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    And if that is in fact what matters, would the goal be to both increase strength and decrease bodyweight? And to increase strength, one needs to lift in a low rep range, as that is what increases strength. Consequently, if you're doing bodyweight exercises, and you are lowering your bodyweight, you are decreasing your own resistance and therefore no longer increasing strength, but instead incresing muscular endurance, which isn't "what matters".
    No, no, no.

    Go back and read the context. Nobody said that this was the goal, I was simply pointing out why Russ' arguments about hypertrophy and efficiency for strength and power weren't important.
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  4. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 2:40pm

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    Time for an experiment.

    WAYS TO INCREASE DIFFICULTY: THE LIGHTNING TOUR, by Russ

    -Add resistance (weight vest)
    -Extend the range of motion (dig a hole under the chest)
    -Reshape resistance (bands, tubes)
    -Increase power (clap push-ups)
    -Lengthen sets
    -More sets
    -Shorten rest periods
    -Pre-fatigue muscle groups

    That took me one minute and eighteen seconds from the time I started the clock to the time my boss walked into my cubicle. Since that point, I've come up with a few more.

    The point here is that I didn't go and list a shitload of "challenges" because I figured they were obvious, not because I thought they didn't exist.
  5. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 2:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So bodyweight to strength ratio is NOT what matters?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 2:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    .//..helpful stuff...//
    I'm not entirely sure what I'm asking as I'm just starting to scratch the surface with these interactions!

    But anerobic interaction was what I'm curious about. For throwing people and such, I've always gotten by on short bursts of effort/energy. But I've been on a crossfit program to improve my overall conditioning. Turning 40, has slowed me down :(

    One other tangent, if I may sir: if I or the Q are doing a low-intensity exercise like swimming or jogging, is there a benefit to holding the breath? I use swimming for low-intensity recovery and I've worked up to stroking full laps with only one or 0 inhales aling the way. Its pretty tiring so I only get a half-dozen laps this way...
  7. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 3:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    One other tangent, if I may sir: if I or the Q are doing a low-intensity exercise like swimming or jogging, is there a benefit to holding the breath? I use swimming for low-intensity recovery and I've worked up to stroking full laps with only one or 0 inhales aling the way. Its pretty tiring so I only get a half-dozen laps this way...
    I've never tried this technique in actual training (although underwater swimming in the pool is always a good time)... off the top of my head, though, there are a few things to note:

    No respiration = your oxidative energy systems are limited to the oxygen already in your lungs (gaseous), blood (hemoglobin), and cells (myoglobin). It'd be logical to assume the following four things (although I won't bet the farm on any of them):
    -you'd be generating progressively more energy anaerobically as these oxygen stores are depleted.
    -as blood oxygen content decreased, your heart rate would increase in an attempt to continue delivering sufficient oxygen to the muscles.
    -as oxygen and glucose are converted into carbon dioxide and water, not respirating would mean that the carbon dioxide levels in your bloodstream would increase in the form of carbonic acid.
    -as anaerobic glycolysis becomes responsible for rephosphorylating cellular ADP and creatine, lactic acid (byproduct) would build up in the cell and consequently in the bloodstream.

    In short, your blood is probably going to get acidic.
    "What does that imply?"
    "I dunno."

    Finally:
    -the psychological effects of exercising without breathing are considerable - they may interfere with your training, or on the other hand, you may adapt and push back the point of panic breathing.
  8. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 3:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    exogenous: IIRC, a study done on pro bodybuilders indicated that their muscle fibers are the same diameter as non-bodybuilders' (implying that they have more muscle fibers).
    Ah, the risks of working from memory... not sure if this is the same study (I kind of hope not - if so, I'd butchered it pretty badly), but it's relevant nonetheless.

    Most of the gender difference in muscle CSA was because of greater absolute mean fiber areas in MB (9,607 microns2) relative to FB (5,386 microns2); however, MB also had a significantly greater population of small type II fibers (less than 2,000 microns2) compared with FB. Type II fiber area/LBM averaged 1.6-fold greater in MB compared with FB; however, type I fiber area/LBM was similar between groups. Biceps CSA was positively correlated to fiber CSA (R = 0.75) and fiber number (R = 0.55). This suggests that adaptations to resistance training may be complex and involve fiber hypertrophy and fiber number (e.g., proliferation). Alternatively, since the muscle characteristics before training are not known, these apparent adaptations might be genetically determined attributes.
    -Alway et al., "Contrasts in muscle and myofibers of elite male and female bodybuilders"

    Edit: Kadi et al, "Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes." also appears to offer some conditional support for the idea of steroid-induced hyperplasia.
    Last edited by TheRuss; 9/24/2008 3:17pm at .
  9. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 3:19pm

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    Interesting stuff and damn complicated, but it is teh biology.

    My original Russian coach would make us do sets without breathing: 10 pushups or 1 slow pushups or duck-under&pickup your partner. It gets your heartrate racing, he wouldn't do this often and I think its because we weren't Soviet Athletes in peak condition. The lactic buildup is something I want to stay away from so I'm working with my crossfir coach on that.

    But in an exercise like a pullup: I suck, its not a range of motion I use and I quickly go anerobic on it so anyway I can build up around the problem interests me ("except doing more pullups?" "Yes! They suck!!")
  10. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 3:24pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You ever try laddering to build up your pull-ups?

    http://www.cbass.com/Pavel%27sLadders.htm
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
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