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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:13pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    you're just trying to turn 'I'd like a challenge' into a diatribe about heavy-weight low rep training.
    You're obviously misreading my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Your recommendation is simplistic and inaccurate.
    Prove it.


    Edit: For a hint as to why your interpretation of my first post in this thread is incorrect, how many reps does the typical set of power cleans contain?
  2. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People don't generally do more than 5-6 reps training for power. What's your point? You think that's the only challenge out there? You think he can't improve his reps without gaining weight?
    Last edited by Cullion; 9/23/2008 4:23pm at .
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  3. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:40pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    People don't generally do more than 5-6 reps training for power. What's your point?
    My point is that you read this:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    So keep your intensity levels high and your sets short, and you shouldn't balloon up.
    ... and incorrectly assumed I was discouraging endurance work. What I was doing was replying to his post, in which he specifically asked about power cleans. It did not even enter my mind to say "you could also do really, really long sets of power cleans (>20 reps)". Usually when I throw hypotheticals like that into my posts, they just distract people from the main point.

    Conversely, if he had asked about push-ups, I would have assumed he is capable of performing at least twenty consecutive push-ups, and my response would have included this instead of the above:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Typically, if you're doing more than twenty repetitions of an exercise, eventual failure will be from other causes (lactate threshold, general fatigue, etc.) and the aforementioned supercompensation won't take place. So if you can already crank out push-ups, you shouldn't balloon up.
    Or... if you had said push-ups, rather than one-armed push-ups and "harder bodyweight exercises" in your post, your recommendation of "high reps" would have meant something entirely different from what it wound up meaning. If he's already on the other end of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy with them, you and I would both need to re-evaluate our definition of "hard".

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    You think that's the only challenge out there? You think he can't improve his reps without gaining weight?
    Stop making bad assumptions.
    Stop caricaturing my posts.
    Start asking questions about things you're unclear about.
    Start paying attention.
  4. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    not that I have any technical know-how with this stuff, but one point where I'm confused is how hypertrophy vs hyperplasia overlap (or not) with-say Glycogen phase of muscle effort.

    I could be misunderstanding this, easily.

    But I am enjoying the back and forth between you guys, its far more informative than "ninjer-death-touch" training.
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:50pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    My point is that you read this:



    ... and incorrectly assumed I was discouraging endurance work. What I was doing was replying to his post, in which he specifically asked about power cleans. It did not even enter my mind to say "you could also do really, really long sets of power cleans (>20 reps)". Usually when I throw hypotheticals like that into my posts, they just distract people from the main point.

    Conversely, if he had asked about push-ups, I would have assumed he is capable of performing at least twenty consecutive push-ups, and my response would have included this instead of the above:



    Or... if you had said push-ups, rather than one-armed push-ups and "harder bodyweight exercises" in your post, your recommendation of "high reps" would have meant something entirely different from what it wound up meaning. If he's already on the other end of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy with them, you and I would both need to re-evaluate our definition of "hard".



    Stop making bad assumptions.
    Stop caricaturing my posts.
    Start asking questions about things you're unclear about.
    Start paying attention.
    I've read your posts, but you haven't really read mine. My very first post was a link to technical guidance on power cleans, which I then followed with 'but why not try something else'. You then assumed I was giving advice on something which I wasn't, for a goal which was never stated, whilst talking about hypertrophy after ignoring the point about diet and other training.
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  6. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:58pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    you haven't really read mine
    Yes, I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    My very first post was a link to technical guidance on power cleans, which I then followed with 'but why not try something else'.
    And then you went on to recommend hard bodyweight exercises. One-armed push-ups in particular. If Q can do enough consecutive one-armed push-ups that he's clear of the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range, I'd say the "challenge" is wearing thin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You then assumed I was giving advice on something which I wasn't
    No. I've been quite careful to reply to what you've said, rather than some caricature I've built up of your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    whilst talking about hypertrophy after ignoring the point about diet and other training.
    I didn't "ignore" the point about diet. You're confused again.

    Why should Q train in the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range if he doesn't want sarcoplasmic hypertrophy? This applies especially if his diet is chosen to prevent mass gain.

    If he wants endurance, he should choose his intensity level to train endurance, instead of choosing an intensity level that would cause sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and then preventing adaptations like mass gain with dietary restrictions.
  7. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 5:12pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    And then you went on to recommend hard bodyweight exercises. One-armed push-ups in particular. If Q can do enough consecutive one-armed push-ups that he's clear of the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range, I'd say the "challenge" is wearing thin.
    Emphasis added.

    Why should Q train in the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range if he doesn't want sarcoplasmic hypertrophy? This applies especially if his diet is chosen to prevent mass gain.
    Because he won't be doing it for long.

    If he wants endurance, he should choose his intensity level to train endurance, instead of choosing an intensity level that would cause sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and then preventing adaptations like mass gain with dietary restrictions.
    The intensity level would be decreasing as he lost weight, remember.
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  8. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 5:37pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Emphasis added.
    To illustrate what, exactly?

    I've already given you **** for your other two replies in previous posts. Either you need to expand significantly on them or change your approach entirely, because those two answers simply do not address the issues in question.
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 5:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes they do. How many pistols can you do?
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  10. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 5:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Or one-handed pushups for that matter?
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