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  1. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 6:55pm

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You can lose weight whilst maintaining strength, or you can increase strength whilst maintaining weight, or something in between. He said he wants to run reasonably long distance races. Maybe the former option makes more sense for him?
    Again though, if bodyweight to strength is what matters, wouldn't it make sense to train in a way to maximizes that?



    Well, first of all, as we both noted right at the beginning, he can't gain overall mass if he doesn't eat for it. He may even be willing/want to lose muscle mass. Working with your own body weight allows you to increase reps whilst the resistance is decreasing.
    You can do this with weight training as well though. You can have even more precise control with weights though.



    Not if you aren't eating for it. You might improve whilst losing mass because the resistance is reducing.
    But why not train something where I can increase the weight AND the reps instead? Why try to shoe horn exclusively BWE in?



    He can lose weight if he wants without hindering his progress at this challenge.
    Yes, but with heavy resistance, he can lose weight and increase his bodyweight to strength ratio, which again is what you said matters.


    He said he wanted a challenge. He can do this whilst shedding muscle mass if he wants to run more distance.
    Yes, but it will not be as effective at acheiving any goal compared to a routine that doesn't exclude movements for no real reason.

    Regardless of any goal.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  2. Raining_Blood is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:10am


     Style: Wrestling, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cullion, yes while training in a hypertrophy range and running a calorie deficiency you can still lose or maintain weight but why would you design your training and nutrition to be in contradiction? Your diet and training should both complement your goals so it makes no sense to justify a means of training by saying that if you run a calorie deficiency you can nullify the gains of the program.
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 1:17pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're assuming he'll be in that range a long time, or that this is all he should do. I never said that.
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  4. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:19pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You're assuming he'll be in that range a long time
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    How long do you think it'd take him to get to 13 reps? Because that time period is the time period he's spent in our (arbitrary) sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Depends where he starts. It probably won't take him more than a couple of months
    (emphasis mine)
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You think a couple of months at most is a long time?
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  6. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:35pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you also recommend that people who struggle to do ten pushups avoid trying to get to 50 reps because the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range is suboptimal?
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  7. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:40pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You think a couple of months at most is a long time?
    Yes. There have been entire mesocycles that are shorter than two months in every block-periodization routine I've ever seen. What a waste of time.
  8. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:41pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Again though, if bodyweight to strength is what matters, wouldn't it make sense to train in a way to maximizes that?
    Sure, you could lose lots of weight or get stronger. It depends what else you're trying to do.

    You can do this with weight training as well though. You can have even more precise control with weights though.
    Sure.

    But why not train something where I can increase the weight AND the reps instead? Why try to shoe horn exclusively BWE in?
    Who said exclusive anything?

    Why try to shoe-horn very low rep maximal strength CNS training in to everything ?
    It's certainly addictive to hit those new lifts, I do it myself, but it's not good for everything and it's not the only challenge out there.

    Yes, but with heavy resistance, he can lose weight and increase his bodyweight to strength ratio, which again is what you said matters.
    I didn't say bodyweight to strength ratio was the goal, I said that because the exercise depended on bodyweight to strength ratio rather than absolute strength level.
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  9. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 2:44pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    avoid trying to get to 50 reps
    :psyduck:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy range is suboptimal
    :psyduck: :psyduck:

    My recommendation is exactly twelve words long:

    If you don't want sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, avoid the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy rep range.

    Take your strawmen elsewhere and stop trolling.
  10. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2008 4:06pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not trolling, you're just trying to turn 'I'd like a challenge' into a diatribe about heavy-weight low rep training. It's not appropriate for everything, it's not always the most interesting challenge and it doesn't make sense to worry about hypertrophy when diet and other training are unlikely to allow (or will even deliberately prevent) it.

    Your recommendation is simplistic and inaccurate.
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