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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 2:28pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    he can increase the reps without gaining muscle mass because the resistance is provided by his own body mass
  2. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 3:01pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Question
    my legs are fucking huge, and I don't want them to get any bigger.
    Eat less.
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  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 3:57pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Which bit don't you understand ? He can shed muscle mass whilst increasing his reps _even through the hypertrophy range_ because he as he sheds muscle mass he'd be decreasing resistance.
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  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 4:02pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Read in context that quote means 'he can increase the reps without gaining muscle mass because the resistance is provided by his own body mass, so he can eat a cutting diet and do lots of cardio'. It does not mean 'this is the best way to increase absolute strength or power levels'
    But you said that strength to bodyweight is what matters and if that is in fact what matters wouldn't you want to train in the way that best acheives that goal?

    I don't see how having your bodyweight provide resistance means you won't gain mass. I assure you that if I do handstand push-ups, and can only do them in the 8-12 rep range, they will be effective in gaining mass. On the other side, if I do military presses with weight heavy or light enough to not be training hypetrophy, they will not promote much hypertrophy.

    As RB said, I really see no point to artificially restrict training to just 1 method. It's just like the people that only use kettlebells, or only use unevenly weighted DBs, or etc. It makes no sense to keep the resistance the same constantly, and just shift the reps around it, because as Russ pointed out, it's going to result in time spent unnecessarily in a rep range that is in no way optimal to one's goals. Why bother having a period of time in the 8-20 rep range for pistols while trying your hardest to get out of it when you could completely bypass this issue by using resistance of the appropriate level?
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  5. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 4:06pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Which bit don't you understand ? He can shed muscle mass whilst increasing his reps _even through the hypertrophy range_ because he as he sheds muscle mass he'd be decreasing resistance.

    But what could possibly be the benefit of training in a range designed for hypertrophy on a caloric deficit? You're really trying to shoe horn BW training where it really doesn't fit, and attempting to bend the whole purpose and goal of the training for the sake of using bodyweight exercises.
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  6. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 4:15pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    He can shed muscle mass whilst increasing his reps _even through the hypertrophy range_ because he as he sheds muscle mass he'd be decreasing resistance.
    :psyduck: : I don't recall Q saying he wanted to shed muscle mass - probably because (at least in this thread) he didn't say any such thing.

    :psyduck: :psyduck: : Increasing bodyweight reps by losing bodyweight may be tautologically feasible, but it has everything to do with losing bodyweight and nothing to do with the exercise routine you've proposed.

    :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: : If my posts aren't doing it for you, could you at least read the ones by Emevas and R_B?

    Honest to God, I'm not trying to tear you down here - three pages ago I said your first post only needed one word changed to be reasonable. But assuming you aren't just trolling the living **** out of me here (it's been that kind of day), we've got a serious communication breakdown going on here, and I can't figure out how to put things any more clearly than I already have.
  7. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 5:10pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    But you said that strength to bodyweight is what matters and if that is in fact what matters wouldn't you want to train in the way that best acheives that goal?
    You can lose weight whilst maintaining strength, or you can increase strength whilst maintaining weight, or something in between. He said he wants to run reasonably long distance races. Maybe the former option makes more sense for him?

    I don't see how having your bodyweight provide resistance means you won't gain mass.
    Well, first of all, as we both noted right at the beginning, he can't gain overall mass if he doesn't eat for it. He may even be willing/want to lose muscle mass. Working with your own body weight allows you to increase reps whilst the resistance is decreasing.

    I assure you that if I do handstand push-ups, and can only do them in the 8-12 rep range, they will be effective in gaining mass.
    Not if you aren't eating for it. You might improve whilst losing mass because the resistance is reducing.

    As RB said, I really see no point to artificially restrict training to just 1 method. It's just like the people that only use kettlebells, or only use unevenly weighted DBs, or etc. It makes no sense to keep the resistance the same constantly, and just shift the reps around it, because as Russ pointed out, it's going to result in time spent unnecessarily in a rep range that is in no way optimal to one's goals.
    What goals? He asked for a challenge and offered him one. Russ piped up with 'but that's not powerlifting! hypertrophy! oh god, bodybuilding!' and I reminded him that diet matters.
    The dude talked about his running performance suffering with extra weight. He can lose weight if he wants without hindering his progress at this challenge. It's not like I'm suggesting he follow the same programme as me, I lift in pretty much the manner you are espousing and don't really care about my times on runs of x-miles at the moment.

    Why bother having a period of time in the 8-20 rep range for pistols while trying your hardest to get out of it when you could completely bypass this issue by using resistance of the appropriate level?
    He said he wanted a challenge. He can do this whilst shedding muscle mass if he wants to run more distance.
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  8. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 5:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Russ piped up with 'but that's not powerlifting! hypertrophy! oh god, bodybuilding!'
    I knew it. I fucking knew it.
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 5:37pm

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    I'm still waiting for you to talk about functional strength.
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  10. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2008 5:40pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I'm still waiting for you to talk about functional strength.
    No, you're waiting for me to have an aneurysm.
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