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  1. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2008 5:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i would advise not running on concrete. find a nice grass field or something.
    :new_all_c
  2. CannibalCrowley is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2008 8:11pm


     Style: Starting Strength

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RobAgle
    The cool points you'll get with the cute granola chick working at the vegan juice bar aren't worth the shin splints, or the ankle and knee pain most people will develop over time with this style of training.
    I haven't had shin splints or joint pain since I've started running in FiveFingers (Sprint) and barefoot.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2008 8:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RobAgle
    What a load of horse ****.

    http://RunningBarefoot.org/?page_id=841

    That FAQ response speaks volumes about the intellectual bankruptcy behind "running barefoot".

    This one is even worse...

    http://RunningBarefoot.org/?page_id=844

    This is just new age hippy "natural" bullshit. Sometimes the natural way ISN'T better. Yes, humans were "designed" through evolution to run barefoot. We were also "designed" to live to be about 35-40 years old. It's only through modern medical and scientific breakthroughs that we have been able to attain the quality of life we enjoy.

    This is of course, leaving out that we weren't designed to run barefoot on PAVEMENT (or over broken glass for that matter) and that most people, due to poor genetics, lack of training or both don't run properly in the first place.

    The cool points you'll get with the cute granola chick working at the vegan juice bar aren't worth the shin splints, or the ankle and knee pain most people will develop over time with this style of training.
    Blah blah dude. Seriously. I'm the most virulent anti-granola hippie-phobe you can find on the face of the Earth, but I don't let their lunacy distract me from the actual benefits of running close to barefoot.

    Obviously one just has to rub a pair of neurons and realize that you don't need to (nor want to) run on concrete. If pple can't get that realization, then they are tards and they need to learn their lesson the hard way, just like most of us had with one type of **** or another.

    I run, on occasions with nothing but a pair of water shoes. But I don't run on the concrete; I run on the grass instead. Until a few months ago, I was doing this twice a day, 2 miles in the morning and one mile in the afternoon. Hell, sometimes I even did my sprints that way. And after rain, the grass is even better, best workout for the hammies if you ask me.

    Anyways, my foot pronation has been improving since I started doing that. Every once in a while my knees hurt, but then again, I've had greater pain on my knees from squatting, so **** that ****.


    For the OP, read the sticky. Cassius wrote a great article/thread on running. You should take a look at that. And since you are with injury, I'd suggest you use a short stride and run on grass.

    Read the sticky and use common sense. That is all.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. RobAgle is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2008 2:22am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Obviously one just has to rub a pair of neurons and realize that you don't need to (nor want to) run on concrete. If pple can't get that realization, then they are tards and they need to learn their lesson the hard way, just like most of us had with one type of **** or another.

    The website I WAS referring to in my post disagrees with you.

    http://RunningBarefoot.org/?p=1265

    There is a common misconception that newby barefoot runners should begin on soft “natural” surfaces, like grass and beach sand...
    As with anything, individual results will vary. People in third world countries who have been running around barefoot since they were 4 years old will have a different experience than your average American jumping on the latest fitness bandwagon.

    At any rate, I'm sure there are people who have had success with it and can claim some sort of benefit.

    The point is that those benefits can be gained through other forms of training which are not harmful, and that the average joe who tries to take up barefoot running will more likely than not, suffer injuries over time. I don't see a positive risk/reward ratio, with so many other training options available.
  5. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2008 2:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So wearing an uneven inch-thick piece of foam rubber on your foot is better for you than walking around as nature intended?



    I think the last word the OP put in the thread title fully applies to you.
    Last edited by Neildo; 9/18/2008 2:53am at .
    :new_all_c
  6. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2008 3:29pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just jump rope barefoot.
  7. Aikislacker is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2008 9:00am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So anyway. Got VFFs, also got rid of my shin splints and now have better running form. I've only had them a few months and use them for workouts with 400m or 800m in them. Usually the total is 1.5 miles. My calves are usually tight the next day so I figure this is the threshold for me now. I haven't tried a 5k in them yet basically bc I think it would be too much for my calves.
    Those of you who advocate cushy running shoes and not running barefoot are clueless.
    Carry on.
  8. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2008 10:25am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dare say I have more experience using Vibram Five Finger shoes than almost anyone here. If I am not at work, where they violate my comapnies dress code, I wear them. Driving to and from work, I wear them. When I lift or train Kettlebell, I wear them. On the bike 3 mornings a week, I wear them. I hike in them, shop in them, walk aroudn the house in them, wear them to church and run in them. I've been doing this for about 9 months.

    The thing that will make running in them more comfortable is to just wear them everywhere else for everything else. Recently, I've gotten to the point that walking over gravel doesn't even phase me in them. By this time next year, I'm sure running in gravel wouldn't be that big of a deal, other than the same slippage issues running in gravel in running shoes face - and even then it will be less of a problem because of the superior footing. And gravel isn't a good surface for running in anyway.

    It will take some time even wearing them everywhere to build up the foot muscles flexiblity to its true potential - I still don't seem to have hit a 'max.' But > 9 months of strengthening to compensate for 30+ years of atrophy isn't anymore suprising than not maxing squat strentgh or getting into a full lotus yoga postion after only 9 months of training. The main thing to remember is, its a completely different experience wearing these than the shoes you've worn your entire life. Don't fret a long adjustment - the gains are small but continuous. At no point have I felt any pain or discomfort that suggested my body was being harmed by anything other than my right big toe being stretched by being opened instead of crammed next to the other toes. That abated after a month, at which point I began wearing them all the time instead of two hours a day. This was not a problem with the five finger shoes - the toes are supposed to be open, not crammed together constantly.

    My feet are noticeably different in shape, and I have LESS shin splints and knee issues when I wear them than I did before. MOST IMPORTANTLY, PRIOR TO WEARING THESE SHOES, I HAD FOOT PAIN EVERY NIGHT NO MATTER WHAT I DID OR DIDN'T DO. I HAVE HAD NONE SINCE THE FIRST TWO MONTHS OF WEARING THESE. After wearing them for two weeks, it had almost completely disappeared already.

    There is a thick layer of muscle on the bottom of my foot in the areas that strike the ground that simply didn't exist before. In addition, a lingering ankle injury that plateaued in recovery prior to getting them continues to get better, which is why I orginally bought them. I'm convinced my ankle would never heal right without these to increase the amount of time I'm walking and moving with a natural stride and anatomically correct foot placement.

    I don't run a lot in them - not because of my feet but because of my hatred of running in general. I did run on pavement in them starting the third week that I had them for up to 2 miles (the limit of running distance I'm willing to do in any foot wear) without any trouble. The improved stride and sure footing of them seemed to compensate for the lesser padding.

    Hiking on a trail is still a little uncomfortable at times, but I recently hiked about 6.5 miles over rocky and rooty terrain with only a little soreness on the bottom of my feet that night. No problems the next day, and no problems at any point with shin splints or knee issues. In addition, hiking used to be rough on my ankles, and I would regularly tweak one or the other a little bit. I now know its because my ankles were always shifting to do the work your feet are supposed to do but can't in thick soled shoes.

    Frequently, in shoes or boots, just a few square inches will be in contact with the ground when a rock or root or clump of dirt is found. The barefoot or foot in Five Finger Shoes will conform around this area, increasing the surface area and gripping it to provide a stable anchored step. A boot will instead create an imbalance that the ankle tries but can't always compensate for without tipping, slipping, pulling or spraining something.

    By the end of the year, I doubt hiking in them will even be an issue for me other than cold weather issues. I can see frostbite in these being a big risk during winter hikes - there simply is no insualtion and they are not water proof. For everyday use in a temperate climate in winter - its not a problem. You adjust soon enough - I first got mine in Janurary, so its really not too bad.

    The human foot IS designed to walk and run over rough surfaces and abosrb the impact. Its NOT designed to walk over broken glass and concrete without cutting and abrading. These shoes create the middle ground. If you have feet, you should have Vibram Five Fingers. Given time running hiking and gravel are just another surface your foot doesn't really notice or mind.
    Last edited by Jhemsley; 10/02/2008 10:30am at .
  9. Aikislacker is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2008 10:42am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Excellent post!
    I wear them whenever I can also. No problems.
  10. EmetShamash is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2008 2:45pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, I am a gullible hippie and this sounds awesome to me.

    For 80 bucks these shoes better last me a couple years though... they don't look like they would stand up to much wear and tear.
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