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Thread: Abused Amateurs

  1. #11
    Torakaka's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only thing I really wish was different is the amateur/pro distinction itself. It's a shitty system that has no basis on anything but who's getting paid which is no indication whatsoever of experience or how to match opponents. Because of this you have "amateur" fighters with 100+ fights and "professionals" who've fought once. You also have people like me and Kat with a dozen fights that don't want to go pro yet because we don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot for finding opponents in the states.

    I really don't care about the money, at all, and most of the promoters I've fought for have been pretty cool about covering our expenses when we travel to fight. The only thing that really bugs me is having the opponents I can potentially fight be divided by "pro" or "amateur" status and that we can potentially be screwed over by unintentionally taking a pro fight without knowing about it (this happened to Kat a couple years ago).

    In other countries, rather than the pro and amateur divisions, they have different experience classes (N class for novices, then C, B, and A class fighters). If they instituted something like that and simply left it up to the promoters who gets paid for what that would be much better.

  2. #12
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    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula
    In other countries, rather than the pro and amateur divisions, they have different experience classes (N class for novices, then C, B, and A class fighters). If they instituted something like that and simply left it up to the promoters who gets paid for what that would be much better.
    i agree 100% with you on the experience class thing. that's what they do in shooto, and when i have seen C class and B class fights, they have been well matched for the most part.

    i wonder why this sort of system isn't in place here in the US.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
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  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because Shooto's got a centralized decision-making body that enables it to create such classes, whereas the only thing that everyone agrees on in the states is soccer kicks and stomps are bad.

    Right now, it's in none of the promoters' best interests to create a centralized governing body for the sport because then other reforms like upping fighter pay, guaranteeing health coverage, and other protections could be adopted really, really fast. The way things are, it will take years for any major reform to work its way across the country. Look at the most recent Unified rules revision; the only state that's using it right now is NJ.

  4. #14
    Siniq's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also fight count, win - lose ratios should matter more.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gandp1120
    If your an amateur and you agree to fight you should have to sign a paper saying that if you back out you owe the promotor $250. As a fighter you should honor your word PERIOD.


    What does everyone else think?
    I can't imagine that these guys (ammy) should have to pay a fine when they can't fight. Many times they can't fight due to training related injury. In two cases when I was cornering, they still showed up but couldn't pass the pre-fight phys.

    Maybe when you are getting paid big dollars you should try to fight while injured; but for an ammy fighter that needs to keep their day job it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Edited for partial sentences.
    Last edited by Vector; 9/16/2008 2:52pm at .

  6. #16
    Torakaka's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well right now it seems that the state athletic commissions are the ones that make the rules what they are and they decide on the legality of professional and amateur fighting. That was the deal with Kat's fight that ended up almost screwing over her amateur status. The promoter told her she was going to be doing an amateur fight, but as it turned out, amateur MMA is illegal in Massachusetts, so it was officially a professional fight. This wouldn't be a problem if amateur MMA AND kickboxing was illegal everywhere, but obviously it isn't so the IKF/ISCF was no longer going to allow Kat to fight as an amateur because she'd had a "professional" fight (even though she wasn't officially paid to fight).

    I think it has a lot to do with silly state legislature and the words "amateur" and "professional". If you get paid you're technically a professional, and to the unthinking layman, it sounds dangerous for a "pro" to be fighting an "amateur".

  7. #17
    Torakaka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vector
    I can't imagine that these guys (ammy) should have to pay a fine when they can't fight. Many times they can't fight due to training related injury. In two cases when I was cornering, they still showed up but couldn't pass the pre-fight phys.

    Maybe when you are getting paid big dollars you should try to fight while injured; but for an ammy fighter that needs to keep their day job it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Edited for partial sentences.
    Agreed. It's entirely stupid for amateur fighters to be expected to abide by contracts and fines when we aren't even getting paid in the first place. The promoter is putting on a show that they are charging people to see and the fighters (who probably aren't seeing any of this money) are what people are paying to see. It sucks if the fighters can't make it, but that's just part of the game and the promoters should expect and plan for a certain amount of their fighters to back out every show. When it comes to big name fighters fighting for high dollar payouts, that's a whole different story.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    Understand when I said that I paid the guy $200 it was so I didn't have to get him meal vouchers, gas vouchers and do the hotel room for him. It's not that I actually paid the guy although he might look at it that way.
    I fully understand and think that it is cool that you reimburse your fighters that way. If only more promoters were in the same mindset

  9. #19
    Torakaka's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    in my experience, most promoters are willing to cover at least some portion of travel and lodging expenses.

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Except these guys www.xmma.org

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