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  1. Nihonto is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 9:00pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a huge tub of untouched soy protein in my pantry. As soon as I heard soy protein will give you bitch tits and a vagina I shelved it and went back to whey ...
  2. Quija is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 9:39pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: American Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihonto
    I have a huge tub of untouched soy protein in my pantry. As soon as I heard soy protein will give you bitch tits and a vagina I shelved it and went back to whey ...
    Thats exactly what I was talking about, there was an article in either reps, musclemag, or men's fitness refuting this, showing that the increased levels of estrogen are negligible. I can't remember which mag because I read all 3.
  3. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 10:33pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it gives you a vagina... hmm.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  4. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2008 11:39pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    Most whey protein's serving size is listed as two scoops, so be careful
    All the quantities I stated (saturated fat, cholesterol, and protein) were per scoop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    but even at one scoop, if your seriously taking protein at every recommended interval plus eating the amount you need to eat to both workout and gain mass, then thats going to come to ALOT of extra saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet.
    The most whey protein powder I use in a day is five scoops (one mixed in with my jug of milk, two pre-lifting, two post-lifting). I'd go so far as to say that anyone who's using more than that needs to re-evaluate their dietary plans.

    Incidentally, all that whey? It adds up to 2.5g of saturated fat. 150mg of cholesterol, but for reasons already explored in this thread, I'm not too concerned about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    Bodybuilders aren't known for their exceptionally long life-spans, and the sheer amount they have to eat is one of the reasons. I expect this to change in a generation or two though.
    You're overreaching. Elite-level athletes of all stripes aren't known for longevity.
  5. Portillo is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 2:55am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss



    The most whey protein powder I use in a day is five scoops (one mixed in with my jug of milk, two pre-lifting, two post-lifting). I'd go so far as to say that anyone who's using more than that needs to re-evaluate their dietary plans.
    .
    Dont you have to spread out your protein intake by a few hours? Im assuming you workout for around 3 hours.
  6. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 10:59am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portillo
    Dont you have to spread out your protein intake by a few hours?
    Well, if I ate/drank the whole tub all at once, I'd probably toss my cookies. Beyond that, I'm not quite sure what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Portillo
    Im assuming you workout for around 3 hours.
    I haven't had workouts that long for quite some time, and when I did, I'd take snack breaks during them. Physical stress (from training) raises cortisol levels, resulting in the breakdown of muscle tissue for energy. The way to lower cortisol is boosting insulin, which is most readily done by eating.
  7. Alchemyguy is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 1:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate/JJJ by way of MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Portillo
    Dont you have to spread out your protein intake by a few hours? Im assuming you workout for around 3 hours.
    Long workouts aren't the key to being harder/better/faster/stronger; Intensity is what gets you there. Grok the stickies. I'm also a hardgainer at the ripe old age of 33, I still eat like a maniac for marginal gains, despite lifting hard (low reps, high weight), training hard and resting...hard. My advice is eat all the quality food you can, train heavy and get your rest.
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 6:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Except for highly conditioned, competitive athletes, 3 hours long workouts are masturbatory exercises. For most, there is no way to devote 3 hours to useful physical activity in every workout.

    You attempt to do a couple of workouts like that, and you'll burn. People who tend to spend more than 1 hour at the gym usually put a lot of idle time between sets. Make those periods of idle time long enough, and they end up defeating the purpose of the workout session.

    There are people who train longer than 2 hours per session all the time. But these are people who are highly conditioned, they follow specific training programs, and has taken them years to get to the point where they can do such type of training.

    What Alchemyguy said, check the stickies. I've already said that on the second post in this thread. Have you done so? We don't mind people asking questions, but we expect posters to do their due diligence and check the stickies at some point. In your case, check the threads in the sticky thread concerning physical training and exercise.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. Quija is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 8:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: American Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    You're overreaching. Elite-level athletes of all stripes aren't known for longevity.
    Boxer's tend to grow old. It's a fact bodybuilders develop premature heart problems, I've heard the saying "The bigger you are, the shorter your lifespan" several times. They suffer from many of the exact same problems that someone as fat as they are muscular suffer.
    Why? They are both carrying the same amount of weight, they both eat massive amounts to maintain their physique. Anaerobic exercise does little or nothing for your heart, so they suffer the same.

    I'm sorry, I can handle your nitpicking everything I say, but if you are going to flat out deny body-builders having coronary problems, I'm going to have to start questioning your credibility and intentions. I'm starting to think your just trying to be a prick.
  10. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 11:38pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    Boxer's tend to grow old.
    Boxers have a special type of brain damage named after them. Bad choice for an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    It's a fact bodybuilders develop premature heart problems
    It's a fact that anabolic steroids are strongly connected to enlarged heart and subsequent failure. But to isolate the influence of size (or diet), you're going to have to control for a few things:
    -anabolic steroids (heart failure)
    -growth hormones (cancer)
    -pre-existing conditions (pituitary tumors, congenital heart defects, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    I've heard the saying "The bigger you are, the shorter your lifespan" several times. They suffer from many of the exact same problems that someone as fat as they are muscular suffer.
    If you meant "large athletes", say "large athletes". Professional football players, for instance, have a mortality rate that's high enough to be bizarre (I recommend "You're Okay, It's Just A Bruise" for much more on this subject). There are also notable mortality trends for sumo wrestlers, professional wrestlers... perhaps basketball players as well, but I'd suspect that's a different trend altogether.

    The above still applies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    Anaerobic exercise does little or nothing for your heart, so they suffer the same.
    Tell that to Dr. Izumi Tabata.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    I'm sorry, I can handle your nitpicking everything I say, but if you are going to flat out deny body-builders having coronary problems, I'm going to have to start questioning your credibility and intentions.
    Question them all you want. I'll survive. My interest here is in the veracity of claims being made here and the quality of advice based on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    I'm starting to think your just trying to be a prick.
    If I were contradicting you for the sake of contradicting you, then I wouldn't be able to point you to this and this - the posts where I previously laid out some of my understanding about the risks of elite athletics.

    I also want you to take another look at what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Quija
    if your seriously taking protein at every recommended interval plus eating the amount you need to eat to both workout and gain mass, then thats going to come to ALOT of extra saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet. Bodybuilders aren't known for their exceptionally long life-spans, and the sheer amount they have to eat is one of the reasons. I expect this to change in a generation or two though.
    Now, when I look at that, the implication I'm picking out there is that my current dietary patterns are dangerous to my health, for one or more reasons:
    -saturated fat
    -cholesterol
    -sheer amount

    I think that's a reasonable thing to infer from the above.

    Anyways, I'm going to leave it at that because I'm sick and losing coherence. The bottom line is that I'm not being a dick for the sake of being a dick.
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