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  1. Rask is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 8:26am


     Style: BJJ, Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    How can I improve my training and fighting style?

    Hello Bullshido,

    I am looking for some tips on how I can improve my training and style in terms of practicality and effectiveness. I currently train in Wing Chun mainly, but I also do a little bit of San Shou. I have come to find myself as a critic of some aspects of Wing Chun, but I am determined to stick with the school I’m at because I have faith in a lot of the things they teach. My school teaches a further modified version of William Cheung’s style. For example, my WC school teaches effective San Shou style kicks, ie big, powerful rounds, fronts, sides and spinning-sides, as opposed to the traditional low-kicks of WC, although we do those as well. I also really like the contact reflexes which WC training develops and the degree to which it enables me to control an opponent the inside range. I have sparred against Karate, TKD and MT practitioners in Australia and Thailand and have found that WC in an effective system to use once I get in close to my opponent.

    However, I have become a critic of the softness with which we train techniques, never fighting full-contact and doing very little training for the development of power in strikes. I also have become less confident in the ‘almightiness’ of the WC punch, and thus have started using boxing or MT style punches, along with lots of elbows, although I still like to use the WC punches for counters and for fighting in close – they are effective here as they shoot directly up the centre. Anyway, the purpose of me defending these elements of WC here is to defend myself against the WC hate that seems to be common on this board before I ask the following questions.

    Since my school does very little in the way of training for power, what are some good methods for this? Do you simply recommend kicking bags, or what? Also, from your own observations of WC, what criticisms do you make of it and how would you recommend that I alter my training and fighting style? Eg would you recommend using boxing stances rather than typical WC stances? Are there any elements of others MAs that you would recommend that I investigate and incorporate into my training? I am basically trying to make myself a more rounded and effective fighter from a WC base, and I am looking for suggestions of what to change/add in order to achieve this.

    Thanks in advance,
    Tim.
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 9:19am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This shouldn't be in Strikeistan. Strikeistan is for more advanced technique related discussions.
  3. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 10:44am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I recommend you alter your training by doing it in a school where they excel in the things you want to be good at.
  4. BSDaemon is offline
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    Being Sublime Daily

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 11:06am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Redfern
    I am determined to stick with the school I’m at because I have faith in a lot of the things they teach.
    ...
    I have become a critic of the softness with which we train techniques, never fighting full-contact and doing very little training for the development of power in strikes. I also have become less confident in the ‘almightiness’ of the WC punch, and thus have started using boxing or MT style punches
    Don't you think that this is a huge contradiction??? You might have faith in a "lot of the things", but it's pretty clear you don't any faith whatsoever in something which is REALLY important. So why the determination to stick with the school?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Redfern
    the purpose of me defending these elements of WC here is to defend myself against the WC hate that seems to be common on this board before I ask the following questions.
    Hate is a pretty strong word, It makes it seem like our feelings towards WC are irrational and baseless. But you are not Wing Chun, and us not liking it, doesn't mean we don't like you. Us attacking it does not mean we're attacking you. We are simply questioning and critiquing the effectiveness, something you are doing now too.

    Asking questions is a sign of critical thinking: somebody who does not mindlessly follow based on faith alone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Redfern
    Since my school does very little in the way of training for power, what are some good methods for this? Do you simply recommend kicking bags, or what? Also, from your own observations of WC, what criticisms do you make of it and how would you recommend that I alter my training and fighting style? Eg would you recommend using boxing stances rather than typical WC stances? Are there any elements of others MAs that you would recommend that I investigate and incorporate into my training? I am basically trying to make myself a more rounded and effective fighter from a WC base, and I am looking for suggestions of what to change/add in order to achieve this.
    At this point your best bet is to leave your school. Trying to modify a style from within is a hopeless uphill battle (ask me how I know). You may try to adapt boxing and muay thai techniques on your own, but chances are without a qualified instructor to observe and correct you, you're going to do things wrong, and you'll have to spend even more time un-learning what you self-taught yourself improperly.

    I understand your loyalty towards your school, I too once clung to such loyalties. But in the process, I was not being loyal to myself. This is when I realized that I had to leave my old Karate school behind and embark on the next phase of my martial arts journey.
  5. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 1:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My bet is that you are somewhat naturally athletic and aggressive. That, along with your "modifications" of WC (using proper punches and kicks) is what is allowing you to spar effectively against other styles. Take a short break from WC and try some MT for a week or two. It will probably be a much better fit for you. Good luck.
  6. Rask is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2008 3:37am


     Style: BJJ, Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the advice. I don't think there is a reliable MT place anywhere near me but there is a KunKhmer/Pradal Serey place near where I do WC. I'm thinking of going there for a month or two and seeing how it compared. What are your thoughts on KunKhmer/Pradal Serey?
  7. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/09/2008 10:30am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Serious? There are tonnes of good muay thai gyms in Melbourne.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2008 3:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Redfern
    Hello Bullshido,

    How do train?

    Thanks in advance,
    Tim.
    Fixed.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  9. Rask is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2008 8:15pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang
    Serious? There are tonnes of good muay thai gyms in Melbourne.
    Know of any in the South-Eastern area?
  10. KiwiPhil889 is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2008 9:14pm


     Style: Kickboxin & Shootfightin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Just my 2c worth

    Seems too me that you've already come to the conclusion that WC isn't the "be all,end all" answer you're lookin for. Personally??? i go for variety. Have personally trained in wrestling,karate (2 diff styles),a touch of Aikodo,and am currently runnin thru some MT and some MMA type stuff( not a style,just an all round thing).

    Figure out what you want.If you want a good all round fight style?? you've gonna need to train in all round techniques. Take a bit from WC,some from MT,throw in some BJJ and maybe a bit of somethin wierd or untyped and see how you feel then?? thats my rough plan anyways lol.Jack of all trades master of none maybe,but hopefully will end up with a good all round game without any major holes/weaknesses.

    All of the above is,of course,said with the understandin that i'm a noob and perhaps it should be taken with a grain of salt lol.
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