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  1. JKDChick is offline
    JKDChick's Avatar

    Senior Administrator

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    May 2002
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    Canada
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 12:27am

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot
    As these women already said they were interested in training, is it not worth at least giving them a chance to try the class? We can theorise as much as we like, but the only way to know for certain if you're capable of teaching women is to try and do so.
    This is true. But don't slide down hill from training hard, to "well, we'll go light tonight cause they're new" to bullshit.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  2. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
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    2,290

    Posted On:
    9/08/2008 7:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Over the Hill
    Not so much excuses, more policy. Please dont take offence but we only train with people we know at this stage. Perhaps it might be time to change but it will be a matter of puting it to the group and voting on it. We arent claiming anything special but we are not exactly the trusting types.

    It would be good to have some experienced ladies training with us though.

    The women in question are wives of the guys already training and a few ladies that I have known for years professionally.
    Is there a particular reason for this "closed door" policy?

    It makes you guys sound a bit like a traditional CMA school from China Town. And on the heels of that, makes ya'll sound a touch creepy or weird.

    As for integrating the girls, have they watched you guys train?

    If they have, and you guys train hard with each other, and they still want to join, let them. And also allow them to drop out as they want to.

    Because personally, I agree with JKDchick, I don't think they're gonna last. Otherwise they'd already be in there with the boys making them forget the concept that "Boys have a penis, and girls have a vagina."

    I used to train at a school with a bunch of women/girls. Some of them were scary as hell and way more eager to take a cheap shot than the boys were.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  3. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Washington State
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    1,721

    Posted On:
    9/27/2008 10:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it may have more to do with retention. You beat the dog **** out of the females when they come in, most won't probably show up again. With that, some guys go light hoping that it will keep them coming and they will work up the pace later. In my opinion, this is also more of a noob thing then anything as well. The reason you don't see this much with guys is because new guys tend to come into class with so much testosterone that you kind of have to go hard with them to calm their asses down some.

    I think a better way would be to let them (by them, I mean women and noobs too) know beforehand that it will be tough, they will need to work hard, and because they are beginners, they will get abused. Basically, before they even hit the mats, set their expectations before hand. Questions about injuries is one way. Make sure they know that just like playing sports or exercising in any way, there is risk of injury and it does happen. This will usually weed out the ones who just want to look cool doing martial arts or only want to get in shape with no regard for anything else. They will usually find something else that will help accomplish that goal; like vomiting or steroids.

    One example from my experience is the females I train with. I more experienced and I do go light on them just because I want to give them a chance to work on stuff without dominating them. At the same time, if I start seeing that they are improving , I will up the intensity. They start improving, I will up the intensity. I do this as well with the males also but again, as pointed out previously, most of the guys come into the class going apeshit and you kind of have to use all of your experience to calm them down a bit.

    JKDChick, although I disagree with going 100% all out apeshit (what's with the word apeshit with me today???) on a female in class, I do agree that you can't pussyfoot (hmmm, wonder if I can find a reason to use that word again!) with them either. Again though, I believe this should refer to new students in general and not just for women.

    My opinion, as mentioned previously, on a woman's only class? I think it's a good idea as an introduction and can get women familiar and more comfortable with grappling. It does need to be stressed that in order for what they are doing to truly be beneficial to them, they need to train with the men. After all, if what they are learning is going to be used for self defense/protection, then it won't do them any good to train against women all the time and then, one day, have to deal with a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyduh
    Now, with all of that said, the last girl I sparred with claimed to be a 4th degree black belt in Ishinru Karate (the word karate excuses her performance) and some sort of blackbelt in "American Freestyle Jujitsu", which I had never heard of. I had her in mount, went for a cross coller choke, and she bit me.
    What the **** kind of instructor bites somebody because she's losing?
    Either she lied to you or her so-called "American Freestyle Jujitsu" was really "Grab my wrist, twist my digits, disrupt my Chi with pressure points" Jujitsu!
  4. Bustardo is offline
    Bustardo's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Flint, MI
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    Posted On:
    9/28/2008 11:24am


     Style: BJJ/Pekiti Tersia/Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My wife trains with me, but due to the fact that she's a LOT smaller (150-170 lbs smaller) than me my instructor puts her with different partners. Another girl in the class suggested a girls only class and my wife said, "Oh jesus I don't want to have to train with a bunch of whiney bitches who are afraid of boys."
  5. MartialArtN00b is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2006
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    334

    Posted On:
    9/30/2008 10:34pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pair them up with an experienced person with good interpersonal/teaching skills.

    Dont pair them up with the ego driven :suck it up or leave.

    Its still a business, in the end. The point is to keep anyone coming in.
  6. theotherserge is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2008 11:28pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    is the person you're rolling with a training partner or not?

    Any answer is anything other that "yes"=GTFO of my class.
  7. theotherserge is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2008 11:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    great nonsensical post! Thanks "auto-spellcheck"!
  8. henno is offline

    Featherweight

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    Dec 2006
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    75

    Posted On:
    10/05/2008 5:17am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to give props to anyone who wants to give training a go. However, even though I have a lots of friends from playing rugby for years, I still don't know many who I think are a great fit for BJJ. The last guy who got interested came down to his first class a couple of weeks back. He took a trip to the bathroom while we were still drilling for a little chuck. Haven't seen him since.

    The wheat and chaff tend to get sorted pretty early on. I'd give them a taste and if they really are delicate they will lose interest real quick. Problem solved.
  9. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Ontario, Canada
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2008 11:31am


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't be afraid just 'cause they're women. I know lots of girls who can and have kicked my ass all over the place. Now they will probably be more inhibited about full contact wrestling and actually trying hard, and it might be worthwhile to go easy on them (if they need it) for a short time.

    Just invite them to watch a class, then train as hard as you normally do - or even a bit harder - and see if they're still game. If so, then why not? Like everyone's said, pair them up with an experienced male partner of similar size at first and once they get the noob out then step it up. They'll quit soon enough if they aren't suited, and if they stick it out then you have new serious training partners. Win/win, right?

    The key is, if they drag down the training level for the whole group for more than a month or so, then you just need to step it back up to normal by any means necessary. If they can stll make it, problem solved. If they can't, problem solved.
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
  10. kramer733 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ottawa
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    42

    Posted On:
    10/08/2008 7:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going to be honest. I'm 100% guilty of going easier with girls. I just can't help it. I go harder with guys but i dont' like going hard and accidentally hurting them. For girls, i go like 40% >> I just can't help it. I really want to go like 70-80% with them but man it's so dam hard cause they seem more fragile.
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