How to integrate women into class

**Over the Hill** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 1:23am

I apologize in advance if I have posted this question in the wrong forum.
My question is directed to experienced BJJ or other similar arts who run schools.

Through a complex series of events I have ended up running a small relatively closed shop training group of experienced male martial artists. We do a mixture of arts including of late a lot more groundwork and wrestling work.
recently there has been some interest in training with us from some wives of the guys and a few other females.
At first I thought there was no way to involve them, but then upon further thought, I realised that is bullshit, there are plenty of women doing heavy contact sports out there.
Its just that the ladies in question that I am thinking of are somewhat delicate. So how to do it safely?

I was wondering if people have any thoughts on how to gradually introduce them to ground fighting, ways to do it without getting sued etc etc

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 1:33am

If there's a bunch of them it'll be easier, have them train together until they're more comfortable with the close contact grappling entails.

**Over the Hill** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 3:11am

Yes, from conversations with a few of them, they seemed to be waiting until other females are there first.

**JKDChick** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 3:44am

They won't last. Sorry.

If they're delicate and won't bang with the boys, they won't last, no matter how much they think they want to. They won't condition, they won't put in the time and the first time someone splits their lip or breaks a toe it WILL BE THE END OF THE WORLD. They will not know the difference between pain and injury and they will **** up the dynamic of the group, especially if they are wives/girlfriends. The guys will treat them with kid gloves, they will learn nothing and it'll **** up the boys training.

They will not last. Tell'em to go train in TKD or something equally useless and non contact.

The chicks who train in heavy contact sports would train if their only partners were chimpanzees and they wouldn't EVER be described as "delicate".

I'm sorry to generalise this much, but I fucking guarantee this is what will happen: one of them will get hurt, it will cause lasting resentment in the group or relationship, and everyone else will fall away.

Maybe these chicks are all hyper tough or something, and I totally off the mark. But if that was true, they'd already be training.

It's doomed.

**JKDChick** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 3:46am

So I suppose my answer to your question is:

You shouldn't have to. If you do, then you shouldn't do it.

**Over the Hill** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 3:48am

Reality strikes again. Thanks for the frankness.

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 3:54am

JKDChick's an optimist by nature... but I think she's probably right.

**Lily** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 4:31am

Over the Hill, not long ago I asked if I could visit one of your training sessions and maybe even join in but was met with all sorts of excuses from you, I'm quite surprised you're suddenly considering allowing women in.

Offer still stands, I don't mind training with guys and it might make the women feel comfortable seeing a female training with you guys. From what you mentioned about your location its within travelling distance for me. What do you say?

**JKDChick** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 4:43am

Originally Posted by Over the Hill

Reality strikes again. Thanks for the frankness.

*sigh* You're welcome. Sorry, though.

I wish I didn't feel the way I do, but after countless times of standing watching the way other women/girls train, watching the guys have to pussyfoot around them and then TREAT ME THE SAME WAY WHEN THEY KNOW I'M NOT LIKE THAT I can already see the writing on the wall.

When ALL the women who train in a gym train hard, it's okay, or much less pronounced anyway. The instant you inject a "delicate" girl into the mix, the guys start treating anything without a penis like a "little flower". I usually feeling like pinning the offending woman to a wall and screaming in her face : "You are the reason women get no fucking respect. Leave my gym alone."

Frankly, it's the boys fault -- they should be able to perceive that not all people are the same and women are people too -- but I'm done swimming up stream on this one. Dudes who know me train hard with me, dudes who don't me learn after the 2nd uppercut and 3rd submission.

**bigfatnerd** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 6:45am

I agree with everything JKDChick has said.

The gender issue has been covered above. Another important factor that has been hinted at, is the relationships that some of these women have with those training - with their respective spouses. From my few years experience in grappling (and martial arts in general) I have never seen a couple who could train together beneficially. The problem seems to be that the couples are unable to take on the roles of training partners in class, and bring in their 'baggage' and relationship roles into class. This usually results in one partner trying to demonstrate their dominance over their partner and superior knowledge, while the other seeks to undermine and knock down at any opportunity. That is why my instructors always attempt to 'split' partners in class, so that they can actually get some real training done.

For me, this factor is likely to be more detrimental to training than the gender of the newcomers. Most people enjoy the mental space that training gives; the break from your partner, work, kids, stress etc. Or perhaps this is a phenomenon specific to the UK...

Has anyone here encountered any 'partners' (wife/husband, girlfriend/boyfriend, h/h, w/w, g/g, b/b, how very pc of me) that could train well together? Or does anyone here constructively train with their partner, and enjoy it?