The dos and doníts of submission grappling
I found an interesting article in Gracie Magazine where "Standouts – of gi-on and no-gi competitions – evaluate which Jiu-Jitsu moves adapt best to the ADCC style". (http://www.graciemag.com/news/149/AR...006-02-10.html)
What I found intersting was which moves certain fighters found to be useful/useless and how much they contradict each other.
Somewhat unhelpful quote from Pe de Pano, but I found it interesting that he's only training in a gi for subgrappling.
Originally Posted by Marcio Pe de Pano (Over 98kilo champion – ADCC 2003)
I agree with his comment about the guillotine. I find almost all chokes are easier no-gi because of the sweat. Something that has been mentioned many times here on BS. I can't comment about the back grab since I'm not a wrestler.
Originally Posted by Ze Mario Sperry (Absolute champion in ADCC ’98 and superfight winner in ’99 and 2000)
I've had the opposite expirence as Shaolin. I'm fine with the armdrags because I grab behind the elbow when I do them, but I think leg locks are much easier no-gi because the guy can't grab your lapels or sleeve to keep you from extending and I've never had a problem with some being too flexible. Maybe I'm just better than Shaolin (doubtful).
Originally Posted by VŪtor Shaolin (Third place in the under 76kilo category in 2003)
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say that a joint lock is easier no-gi. It could be that he just means that armbarring inexpirence wrestlers is easy, but what's the point of stating that? I wholehartedly agree about the omoplata is just too easy to slip out of without the gi.
Originally Posted by Ricardo Arona (98kilo and absolute champion in 2001; superfight winner in 2003)
I completely agree with the statement about the triangle. Like most chokes, I think they're easier to get no-gi because of the sweat, but I find it's intersting that he disagrees with Sperry about the guillotine. Especially since he's he won a fight (MMA) with a flying guillotine.
Originally Posted by Renzo Gracie (under 76kilo champion in 1998’s and 2000’s ADCCs)
Garcia actually goes against the old BJJ mantra of "position before submission" with his 'choke before securing both hooks' advice. But as we all know, he's had lots of sucess with it. He also (sort of) contradicts Shaolin with the leg lock advice.
Originally Posted by Marcelo Garcia (Under 76kilo champion in 2003 – deemed most technical athlete in the event)
Sort of useless advice in my opinion other than he also disagrees with Shaolin.
Originally Posted by Alexandre Soca (Under 65kilo champion in 1998 – deemed most technical athlete in the event)
Someone that wasn't mentioned, but who's advice I find relevant is Robert Drysdale (the 2007 absolute champion) who in his 9th Dimension DVD on back attacks starts out by saying that in no-gi competition side control is useless because it's too easy to escape when everyone is sol slippery. So he trys to force his opponents to turtle and takes their back.
What do other people think of the article and my comments and what has been their expirence?
Last edited by Kentucky Fried Chokin; 8/30/2008 5:27pm at .
Good stuff. While we could find the quotes and opinions individually, I find it helpful seeing all of their opinions laid out in one post. It provides some perspective.
Originally Posted by Exodus
If you find any other quotes, please add them.
Originally Posted by Satori
I see what you mean. You're right, they're easy to defend if the person immediatley defends them. Usually when get someone in a leg locks it's because they're also attacking my legs.
Originally Posted by partyboy
I for once find the guillotine choke kinda low percentage when done no-gi! The sweet is something that makes pulling your hear that much easier...and without the gi to hamper and regain hold of your opponent, he'll just pop his head out!
if do right, no can defend. no gi, you've got the mobility to get that guillotine on right. if you're lazy, it won't work.
Side control is useless what? Side control is my go to tactic no-gi. You just have to keep repositioning and attacking the arm.
Maybe useless is the wrong word. I'd have to consult the DVD for his exact wording, but he considered it at least considerably less effective. I agree with you. I just constantly reposition to keep them in side control until I catch them or move to mount.
Originally Posted by junkielectric
I don’t feel like Ricardo Arona was trying to say that the armbar is easier without a gi. I think he was simply saying he likes it as a go-to move when opponents aren’t technical enough when passing the guard. Good variety of stuff Raz, thanks.
I say ha! You must be going against guys with sucky leglocks. I rarely lose mine when I commit to them.
Originally Posted by partyboy