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  1. jj77 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    south carolina
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    204

    Posted On:
    8/29/2008 10:41am


     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have used both the Smith machine and also this Hammer machine and while the Hammer machine works well , it won't take the place of a flat bench. As a poster said, it is safer but will not work your stabilizer muscles. Definitely use a spotter if you want to bench heavy.
  2. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Dec 2003
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    Minot AFB, ND
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    Posted On:
    8/29/2008 10:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't really feel the smith machine is safer than the flat bench in any sense of the word. Ultimately, the only thing that happens if you miss a bench (assuming you aren't a world class bencher, but at that point you'll have your own posse of spotters so it's a moot point) is that you'll drop the weight on your chest, roll it down to your crotch, sit up, roll it off your legs, escape from under it, and just look and feel extremely sheepish. The only thing that really gets hurt is your pride, and some bruising around your abs. If you don't have weight clamps on the bar, you can tilt it to the side and just let the weight fall off, which requires less pain and more concentration.

    The smith machine on the other hand saves you from minor embarassment at the expense of your shoulders and stablizers muscles underveloping, creating imbalances, and leading to injuries. I don't really see how that is safer.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. TheRuss is offline
    TheRuss's Avatar

    is badder than you

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Posted On:
    8/29/2008 11:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Depends on the failure mode - I had a pec pull on the way down once, and wound up aggravating it by setting the bar down gently on my chest rather than saving my pec but cracking my ribs by dropping the bar from a height. Took two months before I could bench again. It sucked.

    Moral of the story: Make sure your spotter(s) know what they are doing and are paying attention.

    That said, agreed 100% on the dangers of Smith machine bench press. The machine is overriding your natural alignments and applying external forces to the bar, and that's bad news. An attentive and competent spotter is better in all respects, and so is a decent power rack.

    If anyone here still isn't convinced that they can safely do barbell bench press, then grab a pair of dumbbells and do some dumbbell bench press instead. Machines are a last resort.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Oct 2005
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    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    8/29/2008 12:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get a pair of heavy duty saw horses. I got a pair of Crawford saw horses that can take up to 2,400lbs (1,200lbs each).

    http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100003259

    Or build yourself a pair of pillars of poverty: http://www.geocities.com/fightraining/safety.html

    But what Emevas suggested: don't bench to failure. That will save you a lot of headaches, plus it's not really necessary. If you want to go to failure, then stop the bench presses before reaching failure, and immediately reach for a pair of dumbbells and then hit it to failure.

    But to answer your question: no, that machine is not an equivalent to a bench press. It's better than the smith as it gets you to adjust the height of the seat, but it still limits the trajectory of your pushing. If I use that machine, I prefer to use it one arm at a time, standing (not seated.)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2008 12:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Moral of the story: Make sure your spotter(s) know what they are doing and are paying attention.
    Word. Either they let you tear a muscle/crack a rib, or come and help you before you get a chance to press, doing a barbell row in the process :eusa_doh:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Angry-Monkey is offline

    Welterweight

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    Feb 2003
    Location
    Toronto/Hamilton
    Posts
    593

    Posted On:
    8/29/2008 1:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, thanks guys.

    I work out at a university gym so there are usually people to spot. I don't ever plan to go to failure, I just still have a bit of an ego about finishing sets. Trying to fix that. Today while squatting I was having a lot of trouble finishing the last rep of a set, instead of dropping the bar on the safety pins I let go of the bar with my hands and used my arms to help me up using the pins. It was just an automatic reaction and I felt like such an idiot. Usually I just split the sets if I feel like I'm going to fail but sometimes my ego gets the better of me.
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